Progress on Transit Expansion in the Greater Golden Horseshoe

February 13, 2023

The Empire Club of Canada Presents

Progress on Transit Expansion in the Greater Golden Horseshoe

Chairman: Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada

Moderator
Anita Sharma, Network News Anchor, Host, Moderator, CTV News

Distinguished Guest Speakers
Jennifer Verellen, Vice-President, Transportation Systems, WSP
Phil Verster, President & CEO, Metrolinx
Jean-Louis Servranckx, President & CEO, AECON

Head Table Guests
Anthony Di Battista, President, Clearway Construction Inc.
Jerome Julier, Managing Director, CIBC Capital Markets
Michael Kobzar, Board Director, Empire Club of Canada, National Director of Sales, Transmission Systems, Siemens Energy Canada, Empire Club
Patrick Lamarre, President, Kiewit Canada Group Inc
Monika Manza, Partner, GTA Advisory Business Unit Leader, KPMG
Chuck Mossman, Vice-President, Southern Ontario, Energy, Black & McDonald
Robert Poirier, Board Member, Metrolinx
Sal Rabbani, President, Empire Club

Introduction
It is a great honour for me to be here at the Empire Club of Canada today, which is arguably the most famous and historically relevant speaker’s podium to have ever existed in Canada. It has offered its podium to such international luminaries as Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan, Audrey Hepburn, the Dalai Lama, Indira Gandhi, and closer to home, from Pierre Trudeau to Justin Trudeau; literally generations of our great nation's leaders, alongside with those of the world's top international diplomats, heads of state, and business and thought leaders.

It is a real honour and distinct privilege to be invited to speak to the Empire Club of Canada, which has been welcoming international diplomats, leaders in business, and in science, and in politics. When they stand at that podium, they speak not only to the entire country, but they can speak to the entire world.

Welcome Address by Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon. Welcome to the 119th season of the Empire Club of Canada. To our in-person attendees, I'm delighted to be here with you today. And our virtual audience, joining in live or on demand, thank you for your participation and support. This incredible community of colleagues and peers is the driving force behind our mandate to engage, debate, educate, and advance the dialogue on issues of importance to Canadians. Welcome. My name is Sal Rabbani, and I'm the President of the Board of Directors of the Empire Club of Canada.

To formally begin this afternoon, I want to acknowledge that we are gathering today on the traditional and treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wyandot Peoples. We encourage everyone to learn more about the traditional territory on which you work and live.

This season, the Empire Club strives to bring you divergent and thought-provoking perspectives on politics, healthcare, technology, business, arts, and culture. Today's conversation focuses on an integrated regional transit system that will create exciting new possibilities for the region and provide economic and environmental benefits for our communities. As a forum that looks to engage and participate with its audience, I invite you to submit questions for our speaker by scanning the QR code found on your program booklet or accessing the Q&A function under your video player.

Turning to today's program, I want to recognize the Empire Club's distinguished past presidents—many of whom are in the room today—board of directors, staff, and volunteers. Thank you for your contributions to making this event a success. I'd also like to acknowledge the presence of the Honourable Stan Cho, the Associate Minister of Transportation, the Government of Ontario.

The Empire Club of Canada is a not-for-profit organization, and we'd like to recognize our sponsors, who generously support the club and make these events possible and complimentary for our online viewers to attend. Thank you to our lead event sponsors, Aecon and WSP; thank you to our VIP reception sponsor, LiUNA; and thank you to our supporting sponsors, Black & McDonald, the Provincial Building and Construction Trades Council of Ontario. Lastly, thank you to our season sponsors Bruce Power, Hydro One, and TELUS.

For those joining us online, if you require technical assistance, please start a conversation with our team using that chat button on the right-hand side of your screen. It is now my pleasure to invite Jennifer Verellen of WSP to introduce our guest speakers. Jennifer, Welcome.

Opening Remarks by Jennifer Verellen, Vice-President, Transportation Systems, WSP
Thank you, Sal. And thank you to the Empire Club. So, good afternoon, and I hope you enjoy today's lunch. My name is Jennifer Verellen, and I'm the Senior Vice-President of Transportation Systems here in WSP Canada, and I'm also the Global Round Transit Lead. It is my absolute pleasure to be here today for the important discussion on the progress of transit expansion in the Greater Golden Horseshoe. The significant work being done today to expand our regional transit system is so important for the prosperity of this region for decades to come. It's easy to focus on how important it is to improve in the transit in our region for economic development, or how it will have a significant impact in our efforts to reduce carbon emissions. But at the heart of the transit expansion, it's our people. This project will positively impact millions of people who are looking for an easier way to connect with the people that they love, the activities that they enjoy, and the places that they want to explore. People who want to live in the community where their kids go to school, but work in the community that is home to their dream job. People who love the hustle and bustle of the downtown core during the week but want to escape in a more relaxed way on the weekend. And during the pandemic, transit was there to get our essential workers to and from their jobs.

Improving our transit system will provide the opportunity for our neighbours, our friends, the essential workers, and so many of us here today in this room. Our team at WSP is thankful to, once again, work alongside our industry partners such as Aecon, and our colleagues at Metrolinx, to deliver transit links for our communities. We're proud to be part of the team delivering the Union Station Expansion Project, the On-Corr Project, and many of the interfacing projects of the GO Expansion Program. And all of these projects will increase the opportunities to connect people with the places that they want to be.

Now, without further ado, it is my privilege to introduce a person who I've admired for a very long time, and who's leading the way in this great historical transit expansion in Ontario, Mr. Phil Verster. Phil is the President and CEO of Metrolinx. He oversees a team committed to transforming transportation in the Greater Golden Horseshoe. Prior to joining Metrolinx, Phil managed train operations, infrastructure builds, and infrastructure management for passenger rail systems in England, Scotland, and Ireland. Phil joined Metrolinx in October 2017, and is now leading the organization in delivering an integrated regional transportation system that will serve the needs of residents and businesses for years to come. And leading today's discussion is Anita Sharma, who is a network news anchor of CTV News, and journalist. And welcome to the stage, Mr. Phil Verster, and Ms. Anita Sharma.

[VIDEO IS SHOWN]

Anita Sharma, Network News Anchor, Host, Moderator, CTV News
Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for being with us today. Welcome, Phil.

Phil Verster, President & CEO, Metrolinx
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Anita Sharma
Great video. I think that was impressive to show everybody in the room, and to all our friends online today, what Metrolinx is up to. How expansive your projects are, and maybe why you're experiencing just a little pushback. I was scratching my head. I was wondering, what should be my first question? What should be my first question?

Phil Verster
I'm bracing myself over here.

Anita Sharma
Michael Kobzar calls me Friday—are you watching CP24? I said I'll, let me turn it on. And there we have it. A situation with trees. Osgoode Hall. What's going on, Phil?

Phil Verster
Well, clearly, there are matters in front of the court about this. And we're very respectful, and we can't talk to that, and won't talk to that. But you know what? Osgoode Hall is a microcosm of a lot of the decisions we need to make, and the decisions we make on all of our programs. And when you think of the mandate we've got, is to literally build transit faster in a region and in a city that has been starved of transit. And so, when we make choices now, our urgency is to keep in mind these are hundred-and-fifty, two-hundred-year choices we make. So, what we decide has to be—it's there, for a hundred-and-fifty, two hundred years at least.

So, let's think about that northeast corner of University and Queen. We do extensive modelling. And by far the majority of people are going to be on that northeast corner wanting to go down into the Osgoode Hall Station, which is Line One and Ontario Line. And there is a priority for us to make sure that we meet the two things any transit business case must do. But transit is about two things: it's about capacity and journey time. And so, we look at the best possible option to get people to transit immediately. So, if we think of entrances, and we did about 10 different entrance scenarios, but if you look on the western side of University, you would take people that are on the northeast side—and we know how people behave when they in a hurry and in a rush—and we'd say to them, you have to, you can't really go down this remaining entrance because it's too narrow. People will still try, and there's a safety risk, and congestion. And from day one, people would be uncomfortable with a solution, and be so for the next two hundred years. Because some of them would then have to go to the western side of University, cross over a very busy road, perhaps jaywalk, perhaps have to stand and wait for the for the pedestrian crossing to change, adding four or five minutes to a journey time that's 15 minutes. In a single, in a single decision, you've wiped out a third, 30 percent, of the business case for that entrance. And you've wiped it out for the next two hundred years. So, here's the important thing for us. And, and of course, we consult extensively. Of course, we hear what people say to us. But in the end, our mandate is clear. This is about customers and about transit. And this is about the 400,000 people that are going to use the Ontario Line for two hundred years.

And we must be total in our commitment on these business cases. And that's how we approach it. But it's challenging, I can tell you that. It's challenging. And I keep on saying to my team, if it was gonna be easy, it would have been done by now. And we accept that. And we are committed. And we appreciate the support we get from all of you.

Anita Sharma
So, Phil, thank you for that. You know, you did mention right off the top that you're very respectful of the discourse that's been taking place. A lot of people here live in Toronto, live in the regional area of the Greater Golden Horseshoe, and/or work here as well. Transit affects everyone, our families, our children, our relatives, or colleagues. So, of course, it seems like you really appreciate what's at stake here. It's in the DNA of every Torontonian.

That stated, there's still all that chatter, right? Folks are saying, why those trees, why did it have to be that entrance? Did you take, did you do the extensive work necessary—and I guess I, the question I have is, the folks that are presenting these arguments, the injunction, the injunction was sought, I understand there's a hearing, like you said, tomorrow at the Court of Appeal at Osgoode Hall. Where—were they consulting with you during this process? Because you said it was a lengthy one. So, why is this coming up last week?

Phil Verster
Consulting and consultations on transit projects is a very intense exercise. And on Osgoode Hall, for example, and all of our Ontario Line, we've consulted for more than two years.

Anita Sharma
Okay.

Phil Verster
And this is a, it takes a village. I mean some of the consultations up in difficulty, in difficult challenging, on difficult challenging issues, I chair myself at times. And we are committed. And let's talk about this a little bit more. At Osgoode Hall, when we, we've consulted LSO, and it's in the public domain 17 times or such over two years, and we actually shrunk the footprint of that entrance by about 29 percent—the engineers tell me—to make, to accommodate the request for smaller footprint. And we make concessions where we can, and where we do not affect the reasonable, good business case for transit, which must be true for the next two hundred years.

And so, we, so give you an example. In Thorncliffe Park, we moved the elevated guideway to other side of Overlea, based on advice from communities. In Leslieville and Riverside, we worked with the community to change our construction methodology in the work in the joint corridor. Because they were concerned about many things, such as, are there five parks that are going to be smaller after you're done? We're going to make sure all parks, those five parks are bigger after we've built, Jimmie Simpson included.

Anita Sharma
Okay.

Phil Verster
So, the focus for us to adjust how we implement is very strong. On Osgoode Hall, we were very respectful when last year the mayor, the mayor proposed to do an independent study, and get an independent party to come and look at our decisions. And we said fine, we'll wait. And the report was going to be finished, I think it was December or the like, and it only became available late January, and was published early February. But we waited. And a very good third-party assessment was done, totally independent of ourselves, and confirmed that northeast location is the best location. And so, here's the thing. This is how it works. It takes time to get decisions settled in. You can make respectful arguments that some comments should have been whenever. I'm more philosophical about this. These are big decisions. We don't need, we don't need to be sensitive about the fact that if anyone else wants to scrutinize it, they should do so. And we do that because getting this built, and getting it built right, is what's important.

Anita Sharma
What is it, 400,000 passengers per day...

Phil Verster
Per day.

Anita Sharma
...is what you are, is what you're trying to service on the Ontario Line. Is that correct?

Phil Verster
That's the business case. Yes.

Anita Sharma
Yeah. A seventeen-billion-dollar project, a lot at stake. It'll be interesting to see how it unfolds. I really appreciate you being as candid as you can, given the fact that I do understand you'll be at the—well, your team will be at the Ontario Court of Appeal tomorrow. So, very sensitive issue. My phone's been burning up. Ask Phil about the—everybody wants to know what's happening in their backyard. Crosstown LRT. The Eglinton Line. There's rumours, been looking in the paper. Apparently, this could be launched—there's been a lot of delays, we don't have to get into those today—but there were some rumours, some rumblings, Phil, it could happen the spring or summer.

Phil Verster
Yeah.

Anita Sharma
It could open. Are you going to dash the hopes?

Phil Verster
So, great question, again—you've really prepared. So, on Eglinton Crosstown, the project is going through the testing, commissioning, certification, and documentation phases now. Now, that may sound a little bit dreary. But this, for me, is the most important phase of the project. Because this is where we get affirmation and confirmation that what we bought is what we're getting.

Anita Sharma
Okay.

Phil Verster
That the system, the whole transit system, was designed to what the contract asked for. And the engineer of record signs off that we are getting that, and that is tested and delivered to what we require.

Anita Sharma
And that's the number one priority.

Phil Verster
That is my number one consideration.

Anita Sharma
Yeah, yeah.

Phil Verster
And that—what is really unambiguous is we will open Eglinton Crosstown when we are comfortable that it's a safe and reliable transit system. And we won't open it before that. And similarly, I will not declare a date for it to open in advance, till I have a robust schedule that I believe in.

Anita Sharma
Can you give a year, or?

Phil Verster
So, here's the thing. Eglinton Crosstown...

Anita Sharma
Are you going to give a year?

Phil Verster
...Eglinton Crosstown and I've been honoured many times, and so has Rick Leary, who's a fantastic colleague—and I want to say the TTC is fabulous in their support for the, for what the CTS team, the project company is doing. The, here's the really important thing to keep in mind: a robust schedule would enable us to be able to give a very clear indication of when we'll be in customer service. And the four companies that are delivering this for us, Aecon, and SNC Lavalin, and Dragados and EllisDon, are good companies. And they've got good people working on the project. These decisions that we make now are really important because the customers of the TTC cannot be asked to go through an introduction period of a system that is not reliable and not safe. And so, we'll continue to work with the project company, and we'll continue to work towards an opening date.

Anita Sharma
Are you giving us a year?

Phil Verster
No. No.

Anita Sharma
Okay, we're not getting a year.

Phil Verster
No indication at all.

Anita Sharma
Okay. You're from South Africa, originally. Our table, we're having discussions, folks from France—I spent a lot of time in Europe, Germany, and Netherlands. You look at the transit system, particularly in Europe. Wow. Who doesn't want to take transit, right? When you're in Europe, you don't Uber, or nobody takes Uber—no offence to Uber—but everybody wants to jump on the train. Everybody wants to get to the next destination. It runs like clockwork. It's the envy, it's the, it's just the envy of transit everywhere. Jennifer said you spent a lot of time, Phil, working at UK Rail. What's the what's the key? What are we missing here in Toronto, where—we won't go back to the Ontario Line issue that's, that's ahead of the appeals court, or in front of the appeals court—what's the main issue here that keeps Toronto from moving ahead? World class city. What are we? Eight million people and growing. We have a transit system that it seems like you, Jean-Louis, and the whole crew, it is a club where you guys are—and ladies—are moving forward to try to push through significant transit improvements. What's the main problem here? Well, what's missing in the mindset here that you see very evident in Europe?

Phil Verster
All, all extensive transit systems have one feature in common. And that is, these systems are developed consistently, continuously over many years. And so, the current mandate we've got is very ambitious, very challenging, and is intended to give transit a huge step forward. But if we are going to develop transit to be solutions that really meet the economic requirements of a region, this has to be a continuous program over many years, consistently, in terms of how we consult with communities, how we implement, and how we build. Just the industry pressures on a huge program such as what we've got. And we've been, we've had fabulous support from global companies joining us in our, in our program. And a lot of that's got to do with changes we've made to how we buy transit and what contract forms we use, and how we think about transfer of risk. All of that plays a role to help the industry. But the best way to develop big complex transit systems is to do it on an ongoing basis. And I think that's really important and it'll make a big difference.

Anita Sharma
So, not once in a blue moon; this is sort of a continuation. Just keep going. Do you—what's your, how far do you look ahead? Is it 20 years, two hundred years; what's your plan?

Phil Verster
So, we've put proposals forward that looks at a 2041 date, and looks at all of the different trends in how communities are developed, how housing is built, primary development plans, secondary development plans, and really, where communities are going to form and communities are going to travel from. And that's really fundamental, to have a sensible sense of where the business case benefits would be and where future transit solutions must come from.

Anita Sharma
I can't think of a better person to talk to than you when it comes to urban planning, because I would think that you, alongside a lot of folks at this table—many tables here—get to see firsthand what this city is going to look like 2, 10, 20, 30 years out. I'm sure we're all excited to know, if you can share with us, what that entails.

Phil Verster
Cities in the future—and you see that in our children, I see it in my son's behaviour, and in our children—cities are going to become more centralized around transit nodes, and are going to be more about work, live, play, in an environment where people's time is the most scarce commodity and the most valuable commodity. And we see a very strong trend towards transit-oriented developments at stations. And we are, across the region, involved with several developers, and regions, and municipalities, to make that possible. And I think, I think we are in for a huge step change in motor vehicle ownership. And I, and while this is sometimes overhyped, but I think we are at a time where most people that own vehicles use it for, the statistic is five or six percent of the day. The rest of the time, it's parked up somewhere and taking up space. And we're into autonomous vehicles and better connectivity, with better connectivity with public transit.

Anita Sharma
Sorry, Phil. Is also the case for folks that live in suburban areas where, at least for present day, they don't have decent access to transit, five to six percent—it's that low?

Phil Verster
There's so many studies done on how people people's cars are parked for most of the time. And the travel time is—well, some people's travel time, depending on traffic in Toronto, maybe may have a larger percentage. But the real issue for us in the future is how communities decide to develop and what's important to communities. I'll take myself, for example.

Anita Sharma
Sure.

Phil Verster
I don't own a motor car; I use public transit wherever I go. When I want to travel out of the city, I lease a car. And I think it's important for me, and I, that's just how I am. And I think I see, I see that in my wife, myself, and my two children—both of them are above 20 years old—none of us have cars. My daughter lives in the UK, and she's still, she lives the same way. This is coming, and it's coming to places like Toronto. And I, and therefore, I think transit is much more than getting from point A to point B. It's, it's going to become more a way of living and a way of getting around.

Anita Sharma
Yeah, I think that's definitely the case if you live in downtown Toronto. But I think there are a lot of folks that, say, live in Mississauga, Oakville, that aren't close to a GO Transit line. And we know—I'm speaking off the top of my head—but real estate prices are usually higher the closer you get to a public transit line. So, for the folks, the number one complaint that I've been hearing from folks is that they'd love to drop the car, they'd love to have a few drinks with their friends, hop on public transit. Dare I say the bus, you know, like, get on the bus, get on whatever; take the public transit, not an Uber. But it's just not possible.

Phil Verster
I think investments such as what we're making in LRT's, the McCallion Line, Hazel McCallion Line...

Anita Sharma
Yeah.

Phil Verster
...Finch West....

Anita Sharma
Rest in peace, Hazel McCallion.

Phil Verster
Respectfully.

Anita Sharma
Wow. Given her life to public service. Yeah.

Phil Verster
The Finch West LRT, Eglinton Crosstown LRT, high frequency bus networks; the TTC has a phenomenal network of buses. And I think behaviours will change, and attitudes will continue to change. And we are already thinking about what type of trade-offs in behaviours we, we'd like to encourage, through providing a more frequent GO service.

Classic example, we have a multi-billion-dollar GO expansion program that now we've got a consortium of companies that are delivering, that are supporting the ONxpress team—many people in the room, you would know and be part of that—which is, which is a total revolution of our regional rail through GO work. We can take the capacity on the GO lines up to a ridership level that's three times the level it is today.

Anita Sharma
M'hm (affirmative).

Phil Verster
Three times. Shorter trains, bidirectional—currently, quite a lot of capacity on our network is limited in one direction of travel. And that investment will give more capacity. And I just think this is the type of systematic investment that will change how people travel. The concept today is very much to travel into the centre of downtown Toronto. We're getting, we'll be, in the next 10, 15 years, in a place where people in Burlington are travelling towards Hamilton; people in Oshawa are travelling to down to Eglinton Station.

Anita Sharma
That's the unbeatable goal. You know, on a personal note, where I spend a lot of time is a small city in Netherlands, 160,000 people—I call that a town, they call it a city in the Netherlands—fully functioning with transit. They're not fully focused on Amsterdam. There's all these little beautiful, bustling cities, proper cities, with a hospital, with transit, with everything you need to live well with 10-to-15-minute commute to work. That really is the goal, right? That quality of life you talks about. And boy, did folks get a taste of that during the pandemic.

Phil Verster
Yeah. I think Canada will always be different in the sense that it is, geographically, huge country.

Anita Sharma
Yeah.

Phil Verster
But they'll, there's probably a distinction in terms of our public transit works in the more urbanized city areas, such as the Greater Golden Horseshoe, and in the rest of the country. And it won't, really, ever be the same as the Netherlands. But we are on a journey.

Anita Sharma
When I say Netherlands, you know, can pick any European country—and you're right, the landmass as soon as you cross into Canada, you're still on the plane for another few hours, right? Before you're landing in Toronto, before you get to Pearson Airport. I appreciate that. I think it's the mindset that delivering transit, delivering proper services, if you will, for cities that are more than one, two hours outside of a main centre. I guess that's the goal outside of Europe, wherever you are. And it sounds like that's what you're, you're working towards, right? With all the expansion.

Phil Verster
Absolutely. The, our subway program, which is four significant extensions, including the Ontario Line of course, but also Yonge North, as well as Eglinton Crosstown West and Scarborough, are phenomenally important to just create that further extended network. And when you look at Eglinton Crosstown as it's getting finalized now, and you look at the developments along Eglinton, it is just game-changing. I'm very excited about the Hamilton LRT project, which will transform Hamilton as well.

Anita Sharma
Right.

Phil Verster
And, and the extent of investment around the Hamilton corridor where the LRT is going to run is phenomenal. And I think here's what's so important about these transit systems, they are truly transformational. And we've got to remember, this about communities, and customers, and people that depend on transit to get from point A to point B...

Anita Sharma
For sure.

Phil Verster
...and safety, and service. And when we think of that, quite a lot of these other things become manageable.

Anita Sharma
I didn't want to look, seem rude looking at my phone, because I know folks have questions and I want to get to them. But before we get to these questions, you mentioned Rick Leary. How important is that relationship for you? Because we had Rick Leary, also, at the Empire Club, as you know. And he talked about some conversations that he's had with you in the past, and just how important it is for all the major transit hubs to work together to deliver excellence in this area for Torontonians, for—is it Hamiltonians? —the folks in the Hamilton, folks in Oshawa, folks on St. Clair West. How important is that relationship with the TTC?

Phil Verster
Phenomenal, phenomenally important. Gary Downie, who was a key member of Rick's team. Rick has so many names I can give of people in the TTC that are close colleagues and important partners to deliver everything from Eglinton Crosstown LRT operations through to what we do on our Presto modernization, which we are in the market for as well. And I think, I think what binds quite a lot of people in the Greater Golden Horseshoe from the transit agencies is a service ethic around passengers, customers, riders—whatever terminology applies to those agencies, because people use different terms. But that service ethic is what brings us together to get things done.

I think, I think so much about transit is about relationships. So, whether it's relationships that contracting entities have with owner entities such as our own, whether it's relationships with our First Nations—which are super important and critical for us—whether it's relationships with communities itself, whether we can agree or disagree on particular points that community raised in consultations; all of these relationships are really crucial. And sometimes, I say, just, really, very honest, sometimes we are so, all of us are spending so much time to look at the one or two things that go wrong. Because things do go wrong at times. We forget about the overall bigger prize of the many things we do that that's going right. Now, when you look at that video reel...

Anita Sharma
Wow.

Phil Verster
...we are consistently delivering, and we are consistently heading in the right direction. And as I said earlier, one of the things we have within our organization is we say, look, we're respectful, we are humble. I'm very humble about the mandate we've got. But if it was going to be easy, it would have been done. So, we do accept that it's challenging. But that's largely what breaks it enjoyable as well.

Anita Sharma
It's a dynamic city, the Greater Golden Horseshoe, just spectacular. Exciting times, right?

Phil Verster
It is, it is.

Anita Sharma
Phil, a lot of folks were really curious about hearing from you today. And I do want to thank you. For anyone who doesn't know—and a lot of folks won't know—Phil said to me earlier, "ask me anything." You know, obviously, you were watching CP24 on Friday, too. He said, "ask me anything, nothing, nothing's off the books." And that's the only way we could have done this interview. So, Phil, I appreciate your being candid and addressing not only the room here today, but folks online. Thank you so much.

Phil Verster
Thank you very much.

Anita Sharma
You ready for some questions?

Phil Verster
Yes.

QUESTION & ANSWER

Anita Sharma
Okay, let's take them. Number one. Okay, you talked about the long-term plan for Metrolinx for Toronto, the Hamilton area. What is your vision as a company for the next five years, in light of all the planned expansion?

Phil Verster
Oh, highest priority by far is to get the shift that we've implemented two-and-a-half years ago, from fixed price contracting to target price contracting. To get that shift settled in, and to get through a couple of really important development phases. You know, there are colleagues in the room, here—the semantics here is very simple. Big contracts have risk transfers in it. And if you ask someone to build a better fixed price, they take all of the risks, really. And working through a development phase with a market, rather than demanding a fixed price, allows for more learning and more, better solutions, that are better for the contracting chain, but also better for taxpayers.

I can give you an example. We've a fabulous Alliance Model at Union Station Enhancement Project, where, when we went through the development phase, we found things that were over-specified to about 15, 18 percent of the contract. And our fantastic Alliance partner found cost-saving opportunities to a similar event. And when you put these two together, we will have a better transit project. That's the concept. Now, that's easy for everyone to understand, isn't it? But it's challenging in terms of behaviours in meetings, behaviours on contracts, behaviours and how we deal with each other. So, the industry is in a very interesting place, I think. We've made that big shift, and we're letting contracts on a target price basis, which is a huge shift, and has been followed in other markets as well. And we are so grateful that you contractors in our midst have responded so well to it, and globally have responded so well to it. But it's a change. And there's behaviours that need to change, and there's outcomes we need to achieve together. And that's what I'm passionate about. We need to get this settled in.

Anita Sharma
And I sense the passion. And we've got three minutes, so I'm going to....

Phil Verster
Sorry.

Anita Sharma
No, no. You've been, you've been great. Three questions to go. I really want to get to them...

Phil Verster
Yeah.

Anita Sharma
...because they're very different questions. But you're gonna get, can you do—unfair to you—30 seconds each. With the time-sensitive collaboration needed for Ontario Line, Don Valley, Thorncliffe Park areas, what is being done differently with engagement, so an Osgoode Hall situation does not halt construction?

Phil Verster
We have a whole focus to make sure we address the questions that come from First Nations, as well as from community groups that have an interest. And we have a commitment we will deliver on what we commit to our First Nations, as well as to communities.

Anita Sharma
Okay, great. Is the time at hand for a one fare, possibly a surcharge, for travelling across region, system, between GTA regions—specifically, York Region. City of Vaughan Councillor Gila Martow. So that's from the councillor.

Phil Verster
Yeah. Our Minister Cho is leading a very exciting project on fare integration. And he is going to come with proposals in the future. It's very exciting. This is, this is an exciting time.

Anita Sharma
Okay, final question. How do we change the mindset—you touched on this earlier—the mindset of people who live in the suburbs and believe car is king.

Phil Verster
I think it'll change over time. I just think it'll change over time. The new generation have different ways of doing things. And as technology catches up, more autonomous vehicles, more LRT's getting built, more transit, public transit opportunities, I think the Greater Golden Horseshoe is going to look very different in a couple of years' time.

Anita Sharma
I'm really excited to see it. On behalf of everyone in the club, everyone at home, thank you so much, Phil. And we look forward to seeing what you all accomplish.

Phil Verster
Thank you, Anita. Thank you.

Anita Sharma
Thank you, Sir.

Sal Rabbani
I would now like to take this opportunity—and thank you very much, Phil and Anita, for a great conversation—to invite my good friend, the CEO of Aecon, Jean-Louis Servranckx, to deliver the appreciation remarks. Jean-Louis?

Note of Appreciation by Jean-Louis Servranckx, President & CEO, AECON
I could let my closing remarks now that I've been able to listen to Phil saying we are all good companies with good people. That's it. So, good afternoon, everyone. I'd like to say, further, Aecon is proud to be a lead sponsor of today's event and thank you to the Empire Club for hosting it. Thank you to Phil, for very clearly outlining the ongoing plans of Metrolinx for transit in the GTA. As you pointed out, transit projects are among the most complex infrastructure projects to successfully implement. First, they are linear by essence, built primarily within densely populated areas, and, consequently, with numerous interfaces, including utilities, municipal services, existing traffic, other older transit systems, and existing businesses. Number two, these interfaces require very long lead times for planning and ongoing challenges during construction—you talked about it. Number three, in terms of construction, they include multiple trades and systems, which require sophisticated scheduling, engineering, and final integration of all systems together. Just to name a few, power supply, signalling and train control, radio communication, ventilation of underground surfaces, fire life safety, security and cybersecurity, integration with the city traffic signals. Number four, that, ultimately, interface with dozens of thousands of peoples and members of the public every day and have to guarantee a safe and reliable service for the customers that rely on it for the daily commute, which requires the most stringent safety processes during the design, construction and operation of the systems.

The GTA currently has one of the highest concentrations of concurrent transit projects compared to anywhere in the world. Aecon is actively engaged with many of the most significant projects of this program, including Eglinton Crosstown LRT, Finch West LRT, the Eglinton Crosstown West Extension Advanced Tunnel, the GO Expansion On-Corridor electrification, and the Scarborough Subway Extension Station rails and systems. And through these projects, Aecon employs and continues to build up one of the strongest and most specialized teams in Canada for further expansion in North America and worldwide.

Phil, working together, there are of course challenges—and we both know what I mean. Because you know this industry intimately, you know those challenges, and you are extremely demanding. There is no place for vague or approximate answers during our meetings or site visits—don't laugh, please—and we like it. For example, when it comes to schedule adherence within those extremely complex projects, where there is not one but multiple critical paths, you are dedicated, and we respect that. System integration is one of your key focus areas to deliver safe, reliable, and sophisticated transit project. And it is also our key focus area. It's an honour for Aecon to be part of building the future of transit in the GTA, as we work together to overcome these challenges. Thank you.

Concluding Remarks by Sal Rabbani
Thanks, Jean-Louis. And thanks again to Jennifer and all our sponsors for their support, WSP, Aecon, Anita Sharma, Phil Verster, and everyone joining us today in person and online. As a club of record, all Empire Club of Canada events are available to watch and listen to on demand on our website. The recording of this event will be available shortly, and everyone registered will receive a link. Thanks again for joining us today. We invite you to stay and join us in the lobby for continued networking. Have a great afternoon. This meeting is now adjourned.