Isotopes for Hope: Canadian Leadership Needed Now More Than Ever

March 29, 2023

The Empire Club of Canada Presents

Isotopes for Hope: Canadian Leadership Needed Now More Than Ever

Chairman: Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada

Moderator
Kumutha Ramanathan, Financial Markets Reporter & Anchor, BNN Bloomberg

Distinguished Guest Speakers
Chris Benedetti, Managing Partner, Sussex Strategy Group
James Scongack, Chief Development Officer & EVP Operational Services, Bruce Power; Chair, Canadian Nuclear Isotopes Council
Jess Dixon, MPP, Parliamentary Assistant, Minister of Energy, Government of Ontario

Introduction
It is a great honour for me to be here at the Empire Club of Canada today, which is arguably the most famous and historically relevant speaker’s podium to have ever existed in Canada. It has offered its podium to such international luminaries as Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan, Audrey Hepburn, the Dalai Lama, Indira Gandhi, and closer to home, from Pierre Trudeau to Justin Trudeau; literally generations of our great nation's leaders, alongside with those of the world's top international diplomats, heads of state, and business and thought leaders.

It is a real honour and distinct privilege to be invited to speak to the Empire Club of Canada, which has been welcoming international diplomats, leaders in business, and in science, and in politics. When they stand at that podium, they speak not only to the entire country, but they can speak to the entire world.

Welcome Address by Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon. Welcome to the 119th season of the Empire Club of Canada. To our in-person attendees joining us at the One King West in Toronto, I'm delighted to be here with you today; and our virtual audience joining us live or on demand, thank you for your participation and support. Our role at the Empire Club is to inspire thought leadership and learning. As a trusted forum for conversations that matter, we provide a platform for the professionals of our community to profile their expertise. We hope to spark meaningful connections and productive dialogue by giving you, our incredible colleagues and peers, access to this nation's diverse wealth of knowledge, among other things. Welcome. My name is Sal Rabbani, and I'm the President of the Board of Directors of the Empire Club of Canada.

To formally begin this afternoon, I want to acknowledge that we're gathering on the traditional and treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wyandot Peoples. We encourage everyone to learn more about the traditional territory on which you work and live.

This season, the Empire Club strives to bring you divergent and thought-provoking perspectives on politics, healthcare, technology, business, arts and culture. In Canada, the production and use of medical isotopes have been an important topic of discussion for several years, especially given the country's role as a leading global supplier. One of the key issues surrounding medical isotopes in Canada is the need for reliable and consistent supply, with concerns in recent years about the reliability of the supply chain causing disruptions in healthcare services. Overall, Canada's expertise in the production and supply of medical isotopes has contributed to advances in medical imaging and treatment worldwide. And the country continues to play an essential role in this field. Today's conversation will clarify a complex discussion that touches on Canada's leadership as medical isotope technology advances.

Turning to today's program, I want to recognize the Empire Club’s distinguished past presidents, Board of Directors, staff, and volunteers. Thank you for your support in making this event a success. We also have several special guests in attendance, and so I'd like to acknowledge the Honourable Lisa Thompson, Minister of Agriculture, Food, and Rural Affairs from the Government of Ontario; Pam Damoff, Member of Parliament of Oakville North—Burlington, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety, Government of Canada; Jess Dixon, Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Energy, Government of Ontario; and Natalia Kusendova-Bashta, Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Francophone Affairs, Government of Ontario.

The Empire Club is a not-for-profit organization, and we would like to recognize our sponsors, who generously support the club and make these events possible and complementary for our online viewers to attend. Thank you to our lead event sponsor, Sussex Strategy; thank you to our VIP reception sponsor, LiUNA; and thank you to our supporting sponsors, BWXT Medical, isoGen, ITM, OMERS, and TC Energy; thank you, also, to our season sponsors, Bruce Power, Hydro One and TELUS.

For those joining us online, if you require technical assistance, please start a conversation with our team using the chat button on the right-hand side of your screen. We're accepting questions from the audience for our speakers. And for those of you in the room, you can undertake to scan that QR code found on your program booklet. And for those online through that Q&A under the player.

It is now my pleasure to invite Chris Benedetti, Managing Partner, Sussex Strategy, to introduce our guest of honour. Chris, welcome. Thanks, Chris. I appreciate it.

Opening Remarks by Chris Benedetti, Managing Partner, Sussex Strategy Group
Good afternoon, everyone. I did notice, actually, that the great MPP from the riding of Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound is with us, as well, and our Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance, Rick Byers. It's a pleasure to be here with you this afternoon, and supporting this event and the important work of the Canadian Nuclear Isotopes Council.

Sussex has long been involved in the energy sector and has witnessed the evolution of nuclear power in this province. As a consultancy that provides advisory and public affairs support to entities and heavily regulated markets, it is with pride that we support clean energy in Canada, of which nuclear power is an essential component. Indeed, nuclear power is a foundational component of our clean energy economy. It fuels thousands of jobs across the province, harnessing an ecosystem of manufacturers, innovators, and skilled trades, touching communities across our province, and of course, across our country. As we saw in yesterday's federal budget, Canada is poised to become a global clean energy powerhouse. This cannot be accomplished without continued investment in nuclear energy and nuclear technology.

But we're here today to celebrate another important facet of the nuclear industry and how it is helping to transform healthcare. Indeed, James is going to be addressing us today on the very important topic of nuclear medical isotopes, and the truly incredible accomplishments that are being achieved. The collaboration that is taking place across a diverse range of stakeholders and the promise of great success in improving the lives of patients and their families for generations to come. James Scongack is Chair of the Canadian Nuclear Isotope Council, and in his day job, Executive Vice-President of Operational Services, and Chief Development Officer at Bruce Power. A dual role, focused on operational and capital project services, with a team of nearly a thousand professionals for the nuclear facility, and also regulatory affairs, corporate affairs, environment, sustainability, asset dispatch, and business development. It's a lot of stuff. James is currently on assignment as Senior Vice-President, Bruce B. Nuclear Generating Station, focused on the operational safety, reliability, capital project integration, and standards of excellence at the facility, consisting of four large-scale CANDU nuclear reactors, and home to two thousand workers every single day.

James knows well the promise of medical isotopes. Bruce B generates 15% of Ontario's electricity, yes, but the facility is also home to one of the world's largest medical isotope production sources, and multiple plant projects, including the return to service of Unit 6 this year. Because he doesn't have enough on his plate, obviously, James also serves as Chair of the Independent Electricity System Operators Stakeholder Advisory Committee, and the Pediatric Oncology Group of Ontario. He's been awarded the Queen's Platinum Jubilee Award for his work on COVID-19 provincial vaccination efforts, the Globe and Mail Report on Business 2022 Best Executive Award, and James is one of Canada's Top 40 under 40. It is with pleasure to introduce James to the podium.

James Scongack, Chief Development Officer & EVP Operational Services, Bruce Power; Chair, Canadian Nuclear Isotopes Council
Well, thanks very much for that kind introduction, Chris. My wife, Jenny Scongack, is watching, and she's gonna say who is this James Scongack guy that I'm supposed to be married to? Look, thanks very much for, for having me. And you know, we do want to keep this informal today and make this more conversational, but I want to take a few minutes and really set the stage on, on why we're here today. But before I do that, I want to recognize the Empire Club. And I have some good news for the Empire Club today, and some bad news for the Empire Club today. The good news for the Empire Club today is that we have filled the house and it is sold out. So, let's give the Empire Club a round of applause. The bad news is—I haven't told the Empire Club this—but I promised everybody that bought a ticket today that they would get a free ticket to the next time Barack Obama is presenting to the Empire Club of Canada. So, that's probably why we filled the house; I didn't tell you the second part.

Look, I'm here today to talk about my three favorite topics: medical isotopes, fighting cancer, and Canada. And you know, before we talk about medical isotopes and we talk about a lot of the work that we're doing throughout Canada, I think it's really important to remind us all, what this means. You know, we have about 250 or so people here today, 2 out of 5 people in their life will be diagnosed with cancer. So, if I came to the stage here and I drew a middle line right down, right down this hall over here, almost everybody on one half of the room here would be diagnosed with cancer in their life. I can guarantee every single person in the room will be touched by cancer in their life. You know, one of the things—I see the Brain Tumor Foundation here, proud to be a part of that organization, and the Pediatric Oncology Group of Ontario—one of things we always say is that when one person in the family or one person in the community has cancer, everybody has cancer.

And so, then we say, okay, so, what are medical isotopes all about? We talk a lot about energy, we talk about the energy we need to power our homes, schools, businesses, and hospitals. When you think about a medical isotope, it is really the modern form of energy we need for an advanced healthcare system. It's the energy that we need to sterilize our medical equipment, it's the energy we need to diagnose cancer, and it's the energy we need to treat cancer. And I'm going to talk a lot about the future. But before I do that, I think, as Canadians, we need to anchor ourselves on where are we starting from.

So, for over 50 years, Canada has been a world leader in the production, the development, the use, the application, of medical isotopes. There are cancer treatments all over the world today that would not be occurring if it wasn't for Canada. Canada has led the world in this area. You know, and the great thing about, you know, Canadians is, we're, we're very humble. And I think that's a tremendous attribute, I don't think we should ever apologize for that. But I also think, sometimes, when we take a step back, as Canadians, we forget to talk about some of the major advancements that we are making as a country, and leading the world in. And so, that's what I want to talk about today. I don't want to reminisce on the past—and it's a great, very bright past—we want to talk about the future. And so, that's really why the Canadian Nuclear Isotope Council is here today.

But before I talk about the report, the other thing I like to start every discussion with is, people. So, oftentimes, whether you're in the nuclear business, the cyclotron business—see lots of people from suppliers here, medical institutions, I see Rebecca Long from Princess Margaret Hospital, who is one of the leading theranostics program, probably treated cancer patients this morning—we often think of these as highly technical fields. And don't get me wrong, they are, it is a very highly technical field. But at the end of the day, it's a people business. At the end of the day, it's people at the Bruce Nuclear Generating Station today, or Darlington, or Pickering, that are coming to work, making those machines run safely to a high standard, and producing not only electricity but medical isotopes. It's the people that are at TRIUMF in British Columbia, right now—I know they're watching remotely—who are operating Canada's largest cyclotron. It's people at Nordion, who are processing cobalt. It's people at Princess Margaret, who are treating patients. It's people at McMaster, who are producing iodine and advancing new treatments. Let us not forget, this is a people business, and I don't want to leave anybody out with that. So, let's give a round of applause to all the people who wake up every morning and help us fight cancer as part of that. It’s about them.

So, I now want to talk about the Canadian Nuclear Isotope Council, something I'm very proud of, and I know many of you in the room are. We formed the Canadian Nuclear Isotope Council five years ago. We have 80 organizations from across Canada—most Canadian provinces—represented in the CNIC. We’re a not-for-profit organization, which is code word for government officials, you can easily give us money, and that's allowed—and I’m actually serious about that. But the purpose of the Canadian Nuclear Isotope Council was to recognize that we are very strong technically, in this space. We have a tremendous amount of infrastructure and assets, whether it's our CANDU reactors that are unique, a unique design to not only produce electricity, but to produce isotopes; and all of those other assets I talked about, research reactors, cyclotrons, our infrastructure across the country.

But back in 2018, we recognized that we were not as a sector doing ourselves any justice. We were looking back at what we had done, reminiscing about the past, and recognizing that we needed to come together for an exciting new future. And there's two people that I really want to recognize; there's literally hundreds and hundreds of people that have been instrumental to the CNIC. We've carried out trade missions throughout the pandemic in the US and Europe, we've focused on commercialization, supply chain issues, theranostics, diagnostics, and sterilization. The CNIC has really allowed us to pull people together, bring people together, and what I always say is we're stronger together. But the two people that have been instrumental in this—and I would like to put them on the spot—I'd like Melody Greaves and Andrew Thiele to stand up, and let's give them a round of applause for everything that they've done.

So, I'm going to just briefly summarize the report, and then we'll get into the discussion. So, the report that you'll see, and by the way, designed by—and I can't help myself, I know I'm not presenting on behalf of Bruce Power today—but our Bruce Power creative strategy team. Is that not an awesome-looking report? Let's give them a round of applause, absolutely. But really, what this report is about is it's an ambitious vision for the future of isotopes in Canada. It talks about what we can do when we're stronger together. And fundamentally, it's about doubling our production by 2030. We have a global demand for isotopes that is going to more than double by 2030. And if we aren't producing those isotopes, if we aren't developing those treatments, who will? Who will? Because I can tell you, when you look at the strategic assets that we have, both in human capital research and development, but also in the production, nobody else stacks up to Canada in that. So, we not only have an opportunity, but a responsibility to do that.

And when you're thinking about that, I want you to think about healthcare for a minute. And I want you to think about the—and we all have them in our lives—the lowest day, where you have some terrible news about yourself or a family member. And you go to the hospital, or you go to the doctor. And what is it you want? You want to know that you have access to the best care. And as Canadians, we are very fortunate with the care we receive. We are. If you look around the world and you think of the world population, how many of the world’s 7 billion people do we think have access to the same kind of care we do, healthcare here in Canada? Not many. The good news is, is that as those countries and regions of the world, as they become, get greater and greater access to treatments, they're going to need access to things like isotopes. So, this is not just about us and us having the supplies that we need to—this is also about recognizing there are billions of people in the world that want the same access to healthcare and the same access to treatments that we do, and they're counting on us to provide that.

We're going to talk more about the report, so I won't get into it in in a tremendous amount of detail, but what we've tried to do is be very practical, practical and focused. We're not knocking on the government's door to take care of everything. We're not just putting it on the federal government, we're not just putting it on the provincial government. We're saying, here is what a Team Canada approach looks like. We've had a tremendous amount of support for our sector. And you know, one of one of my proudest moments—and I see Bill Walker here—back in November 2021 Bill and a number of his parliamentary colleagues—I know Lisa Thompson and others—introduced a motion in the Ontario Legislature on the strategic role of medical isotopes in the province and our global role. It passed unanimously. Now, in case you didn't remember, November 2021 was just before an election. Coming out of the pandemic, we all came together on something special, so this is an example of where we can come together.

And I'm really thrilled that Pam Damoff is here today. You know, I know she was formally introduced, but Pam, you know, my title for Pam is, she is a champion in Ottawa of nuclear power and medical isotopes; she has our back, and that's important. And you saw that in the budget yesterday. Speaking of people that have our back, we have Rick Byers here. And I want to put Rick on the spot, because he's the Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance—and Rick, I'm not going to ask you for money, but I can. But I just talked about McMaster University. In the provincial budget last week, they announced a contribution to McMaster University—I see Karen Stephenson here—to run 24/7 operation that almost double or triple isotope supply from the McMaster Research Reactor. So, let's give the Ontario budget a round of applause. And I also want to thank Lisa Thompson. She is the MPP of the—I said this, actually, one time when I was introducing Erin O'Toole at Bill Walker's retirement party, I said I'd now like to introduce the Leader of the Opposition. And what's great about Erin O'Toole is, he comes from the riding of the second largest nuclear plant in Ontario; Lisa comes from the riding of the largest nuclear plant in Ontario, in Huron—Bruce; but thank you for your leadership. And, but also, when we're thinking about medical isotopes, we can't forget about some of the agricultural opportunities there, as well, that we've seen throughout the world. So, there's a tremendous opportunity for us to come together as a superpower, and I look forward to talking about it.

Now, this was not planned, this is how I want to wrap up. Did everybody hear the music when we came in? Was that U2? Give me a round of applause, is that U2? I think it was. So, I was trying to think of the best way to wrap this up, because what happens is you go to these things and you say, hey, what, what did we leave people with? So, I'm hoping in this, I'm going to leave you with, actually, what I want to leave you with. And so, I'm a fan of Bono. And before I recognize Bono, I actually Googled, to say, is he a supporter of nuclear power? Because I'm not going to promote Bono if he's not a supporter of nuclear power. So, he is, he believes we need nuclear to net zero—so he passed the test, right? So, he knows what he's talking about. But back in 2016, he gave a really good speech—and I had the opportunity to review it yesterday—and it just, you could almost replace what he was talking about with isotopes, and it came together. And he was talking about in, at the World Health Organization in 2016, about the leadership role of Canada in AIDS, Tuberculosis, and Malaria. And the word he used was, he said “the world needs more Canada.” And I thought that was just a great line, and to me, that summarizes what we're doing here. The world needs more Canada, to produce medical isotopes, to fight cancer, and to and to give people hope. So, anyway, I'm looking forward to the conversation. We have a lot of questions from our moderator, but I always say, I never leave a room unless I get three questions from the audience. So, unless you want to be here all day, somebody's got to think of three questions.

Look, thanks for being here. I hope that, at the end of the day today, when you go home and you go to bed at night, your head hits the pillow, you leave with some satisfaction that you made a difference today. If you can promote our role in this, you may not know who you're helping, but you're going to help somebody. And that's what life is all about. So, thanks very much, and I'm really looking forward to the discussion. Thank you.

Sal Rabbani
Thank you, James. Now, I'd like to take this opportunity to invite Kumutha Ramanathan, Financial Markets Reporter and Anchor for BNN Bloomberg. Welcome.

Kumutha Ramanathan, Financial Markets Reporter & Anchor, BNN Bloomberg
James, you've so eloquently, you know, placed the conversation, discussed the pressing need. Tell me, what keeps you up at night, in terms of bridging that demand with what we know is going on geopolitically, and the renewed interest in Canada's ability to supply the world?

James Scongack
Yeah. So, you know, what I would say is—and you know, I talked a lot about a lot of things that the sector is doing. You know, we have organizations here like BWXT, Nordion, isoGen—which is owned by Framatome and Kinetrics—and what I can tell you is, firstly, I don't have problems sleeping at night. And the reason why I don't is because on these issues, you know, there's people 24/7 that are, whenever there are issues, whenever there are challenges, they deal with them, because they know how important it is. But in terms of the trajectory of your question, what I would say keeps me awake at night is that I sometimes think that we—when it comes to files like this, we think we have more time than we do. Like, time is one of those commodities you can never get back. You know, Warren Buffett says, “I have all the money in the world I need, but I can't buy time.” And, you know, what? He's right. And it and it's the same with this, right? The decisions that we make now, like we talked about in the report, you really see the benefit of it 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 15 years in the future. So, what keeps me up, awake at night is, with so many things going on, with so many urgent things, how do we keep that intensity around what do we need to do tomorrow, what do we need to do next week? Because sometimes these things seem so big that, actually, taking the first step is the most important; and once you've taken the first step, then the second step. And not getting too caught up on how we're going to deal with step 68. So, I know it's not a direct answer to your question, but that's sort of, you know, what worries me the most at times.

Kumutha Ramanathan
Okay. And obviously, we have a very diverse group from private sector, we've got MP's, you're talking about those deep pockets, getting everyone to work together—and you have them all in the room today—what would you say to them in terms of getting that inertia forward, and really making a difference?

James Scongack
Well, the first thing I would say is that leadership is all about taking action. And at the end of the day, anybody in that, you know, whether you're an elected official at the provincial level, elected official at the federal level, a First Nations community, whether you're in the private sector, fundamentally, this is all about we can't wait for somebody else to do something. And, given the urgency of the challenge we have, we need to break down traditional silos, and we need to sit around the table, and literally work through items in an expeditious way. So, my message would be is, when we leave here, let's make sure this is not the last time we're all in a room together. You know what it's like, you sometimes come to these—and not today, because everybody's well aligned in this room—and people that are cross-functionally on a file are introducing themselves at the reception. And you say, well, have you not met before? And that's really what we have to do is to say, how do we bring people together? You know, I look at the important work that, for example, MaRS does—and I see our friend from MaRS here—when we bring people together and align them on a on a focused goal, it's amazing what happens. So, let's keep that level of togetherness and figure out what actions we're going to take together. And the report lays some of those out.

Kumutha Ramanathan
Exactly. So, I wanted you to layout a few, you know, as a preview to this report, in terms of those actionable targets that we can reach three months, six months, a year from now.

James Scongack
Absolutely. I think the first thing that we need to do is, firstly, I think there's a private sector component, and then, I think there's a public sector component. On the public sector component, you look at the very strong support that we have here in the province of Ontario. And I had the opportunity to meet with Premier Ford this morning, and we took him through the report, and he was, you know, quite supportive of it. Pam's here, you look at the federal budget this week. All of the tools are there for us to be successful, from a from a public policy perspective.

From a from a private sector perspective, it's incumbent upon us to work with our levels of government and regulators and talk to them about how we can reduce the barriers, right? The great thing about medical isotopes is that it touches everything; the bad news about medical isotopes is that it touches everything. There's not one minister responsible for nuclear isotopes—although I have some ideas, if Premier Ford and the Prime Minister are open to it—but that's really the takeaway here, is we need to take these recommendations and work through them, work through them in an expeditious way. And make sure—in particular, with our private sector partners—that we're streamlining our regulatory process, streamlining our decisions, so they can make the incremental decisions needed.

Kumutha Ramanathan
So, for many in this group here today, Cameco, Nutrien, these are companies TSX-listed that have very much been in focus and engaged in high-level conversations because of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, and what that has done in terms of supplying the market with basic resources that Canada has today. Tell me about similar conversations you're having, given the chaos in other parts of the world, and how Canada can really answer some of those calls.

James Scongack
Yeah no, absolutely. I mean, you know, we look at so many sectors across Canada that we, we dominate in. And we should be proud of that, we have a very rich natural resources sector. You know, I don't want anybody to ever be short of medical isotopes because of a geopolitical dispute, a war, a conflict. And very much, when I look at Canada's role, we can be that that player that, you know, somebody that needs a cancer treatment is not held up because of, you know, a geopolitical conflict. And you know, we could, we could obviously talk about the very sad situation in Ukraine a lot. But that's what Canada brings to the table, right? This is something that has to supersede that. And I think the Canadian flag flies well. I think when people see Canada, they see Canada as a country and a brand that they trust, and they know that they can count on. And so, not only do we have the capability, but we have the reputation. You know, somebody once said to me, reputation is the highest prize, because you don't give yourself a reputation, others give you a reputation. And I think that applies to Canada.

Kumutha Ramanathan
So, when you think of how you get the conversation moving and that bridge between private and public sector, do you believe the infrastructure exists to move to the level where we can really service beyond Canada and fill those gaps that we've been discussing?

James Scongack
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think sometimes we underestimate the value of our existing assets, I say that a lot in electricity generation. You know, I always say the best asset you have is the asset that is running reliably and delivering for you today, right? And that may seem kind of common sense, but it's true. So, fundamentally, I think the starting point here—and we're seeing some of it, you look at the work that OPG is doing at Darlington in Pickering, as they're, you know, outfitting their units, at Bruce Power, we're into the [indiscernible]—taking our existing reactors, whether they be commercial reactors or research reactors, taking our cyclotron technology and saying, how do we just enhance the current infrastructure we have? How do we modernize it? How do we create innovation? How do we bring new engineering practices, new technology to bear, to increase the output of those? And so, step number one, for me, is optimize the infrastructure you have. And if you look at the capability that we have just today, through that approach, that's what gets us to doubling our output by 2030, and it's and it's there for us. I'm not pretending it's easy. But if we, but if we don't paint that vision, we're never gonna get there.

Kumutha Ramanathan
And as deep as the sort of groundswell of support might be, there's always the pandemic that has thrown a wrench into even the most well-intentioned of plans. Talk to me about how your industry, your sector, your peers, have had to struggle through some of the very practical realities of labour force disruptions, as well as, in some cases, the lack of talent...

James Scongack
Right.

Kumutha Ramanathan
...to be able to take forward a very niche sector, to meet those ambitions.

James Scongack
Yeah. Obviously, obviously the pandemic has challenged our sector, supply chain disruptions. You know, our friends are here from ITM, and you know, they have a better, you know, global view of the supply chain—or Nordion, right? So, all of the supply chain that we see in any sector, it applies to isotopes. The one thing I would say is that that, that the pandemic has changed—and I do want to come back to skills in a second—is there is no doubt that coming out of the pandemic, the demand for isotopes that sterilize medical equipment—you know, if you think of COVID swabs, gloves, the single-use medical equipment that, when you're in an operating room, that the physician pulls off the shelf, it's sterilized. You know, 70% of the world's supply comes from Canada. In Canada, in one year, we produce enough Cobalt-60 to sterilize 25 billion individual pieces of PPE, that can be COVID swabs; the demand for that has increased. And so, that's where we have to increase the supply in that.

I think skills, the development of people and skills, is to me, is the real the real advantage for us. And I think to me, if we do this well, we can—this is the type of sector and the type of unique skillset that, if we continue to form it in Canada, you know, this is going to be a workforce that will want to stayin this sector. But you see it across healthcare, you see it in pediatric oncology. You know, sometimes, you know, we're at a spot now where it's not about the amount of funding, it's about can we spend it...

Kumutha Ramanathan
Right.

James Scongack
...so, that's going to be an ongoing challenge. But fundamentally, I believe that if people are in an exciting sector that has a future, that, in itself, is a key way to continue to keep them attracted.

Kumutha Ramanathan
So, this sounds like it's, it goes beyond investments just at the infrastructure level, but also at the talent level. So, introducing it to kids in high school, making sure they're aware that this industry even exists, the demand that exists, so all levels of government have to be engaged.

James Scongack
Well, that's right. And I mean, Jess and I were just talking about this earlier around, you know, if you look at the curriculum and you know, what work do we do in Ontario high schools in terms of, you know, educating and engaging kids in nuclear power, and medical isotopes, and physics, right? And making this an exciting field to be in. You know, I can't think of anything more rewarding than helping somebody, helping fight cancer. Now, I'm sure there's low days for, for people that are in that that line of work. But it's such important work. So, so to me, I think we need to, you know, we need to give, you know, kids—and frankly, people that are in the workforce now—that kind of vision of, hey, this is a really important sector to be a part of. And to me, you know, when we go and hire people with my “Bruce Power” hat on, you know, once you get through the sort of the initial questions people have about, you know, what am I going to do and, you know, what's my pay, where am I going to live, all those important things, people, the biggest thing with people now entering the workforce is they want to be part of something...

Kumutha Ramanathan
Right.

James Scongack
...and if they're not part of something, it's going to be a fluid workforce. That's what we see, right? If you're, if you're chasing the transient labour market, you're always going to be chasing it.

Kumutha Ramanathan
I want to open the floor to some questions that are starting to come through. I do encourage everyone in the audience to feed those through as well. First question, can someone comment on how isotope agreements, like the Bruce Power-SON agreement, can help pave the way for broader energy advancements that can benefit Indigenous communities?

James Scongack
Yeah, it's a great, it's a great question. And we have, you know, some, some folks here today from Bruce Power and the Saugeen Ojibway Nation. And you know, for me—especially looking at it from a from a nuclear power perspective, and as an organization that we safely operate every single day, and generate electricity—you know, at the end of the day, the core focus of your business has always got to be to gain trust. And trust is something that takes a long time to build up; and, you know, frankly it can go the other way. And we recognized at Bruce Power that we—over the next 50 years—we wanted the next 50 years to be different than the last 50 years, and have worked very closely with Saugeen Ojibwe Nation, and formed a partnership on the production of isotopes. And what it's taught me is, is that there's a tremendous opportunity to build new relationships on something new, and something exciting. And it can be a way that we make a difference together, it can be a way we work together, and I hope and believe it is an area we can start building trust together.

So, as I, as I think about, you know, our collective continued ongoing journey towards reconciliation, there is a great opportunity to work with our Indigenous peoples in unique economic partnerships on isotopes. Every one of those production facilities that I talked about, I can guarantee you is on First Nations and Métis Traditional Territory. And you know, part of a modern Canada that actually doesn't just talk about reconciliation advances, it is, how do we bring those folks to the table? And to me, that's really exciting; really, really exciting. Some of the best advocates of our isotope project have come from the SON.

Kumutha Ramanathan
And the great thing is, in Canada we have so many examples of corporations, private sector individuals, working with government to make sure that everyone benefits from these. Are there any interesting anecdotes that you take away from, sort of preliminary conversations, that help shed light on exactly where we stand in terms of engaging this community?

James Scongack
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think at the end of the day, the—I always say talk is cheap. And I think when you, you know, first, first and foremost it's very important to listen. And when you truly listen and engage in these relationships, you have to be prepared to take action. You have to be able to, if you make a commitment, you have to be prepared to follow through with it. That's part of building trust. And so, what I would say is—and you know, I'm sure the Saugeen Ojibway Nation would have their perspective as well—mine would be that every single day we take a step forward, the confidence builds. And when that confidence builds, people want to take bolder and bolder steps, and the trust grows. And so, you know, the biggest challenge, I think, for all of us in Corporate Canada, is take concrete action take a first step, then take a second step, and you can't, you can't advance this without trust.

Kumutha Ramanathan
Did you ever think we would get to this point where, you know, the Canadian market would be in such a spotlight position, ready to sort of harness the technologies you already have, but to also grow so rapidly in a field that is, clearly, thriving?

James Scongack
Well, it's a really good point. Like, if you go back to the 1970’s and 80’s, the men and women that built this infrastructure that I alluded to, I don't think they thought we would be sitting here in 2023 looking to modernize and life-extend that out to the second half of the 21st century, produce isotopes, fight climate change. So, I think for the people that built it, I think, when they look back, they'd be pretty darn proud. I'm not surprised about it, and I'll tell you why. Because I think anytime Canada has a challenge, Canada has an opportunity we want to go after, we knock it out of the park.

What has amazed me is in some of the work that Dr. Rebecca Wong has done, and our friends at ITM and isoGen, looking at theranostics. The field of theranostics, in terms of isotopes that aren't just—and I don't mean just—but typically, isotopes are for use for diagnostics, or therapeutic. The new field of theranostics, where, essentially, an isotope finds the cancer and destroys it; I call it a heat-seeking missile. To me, that is something I don't think I could have imagined 15 years ago...

Kumutha Ramanathan
Right.

James Scongack
...and I have no reason to believe that we're not going to see that technological growth over the next 10 years. I think, if we're sitting here 10 years from now—and I would love to come back in 10 years, if they'll have me—I think we're going to look back at theranostics as the game-changer for cancer treatment.

Kumutha Ramanathan
That's great. Well, we've got about 5 minutes here, still. I see you have some props with you.

James Scongack
I do.

Kumutha Ramanathan
Is there anything you want to...

James Scongack
Well, yeah. And, and I...

Kumutha Ramanathan
...share?

James Scongack
...I can't help myself, and people who work with me know. So, I just—like, we talked about some of these things in abstract, and so, I think it's really important to visualize what I'm talking about. So—and don't worry, I'm not going to suggest anybody get intubated in here today or, you know, if you're hooked up on an IV—but, you know, this, this is single use medical equipment, right? So, what happens, you know, if you have, you or a loved one are in a hospital? You know, how many times you see a physician or a nurse opening all of this kind of equipment, right? And what's the most important thing about this? It's that it's sterile, it's sterile inside; that when someone is in the hospital or they’re getting a procedure, they're not going to get a secondary infection. You go back 40 years ago, you look at the challenge rates of people who had surgical procedures, and later had issues with infections. Canada, on an annual basis, sterilizes 25 billion pieces of this kind of medical equipment, 70% of the world market. That has led to clean hospitals, clean healthcare all over the world. Think of the thousands of lives that have been saved.

The other thing I want to show you—and I can't, I can't take credit for this one, I have to give credit to our friends at at isoGen—but this target right here. So, this target right here, right now, in one of our Bruce B reactors, we would have a number of these targets in. They sit in the reactor for a year. This target can produce enough of that Lutetium 177 that we talked about later—I hope Yttrium-92 in the future, by the way, to our friends at Boston Scientific—can produce enough Lutetium 177 in this target to treat a hundred cancer patients; one hundred. And we have eight reactors on our site. OPG has 10, between Pickering and Darlington, multiple ports per unit. We can be the world’s supply of these targets.

So, I always say, isn't it amazing to think, helping somebody fight cancer is sitting in one of—and by the way, this is not irradiated right now, this is what they call a dummy target, that's why they, I mean all that—but you know, just gives you an example of what we're talking about, right? We're creating another form of energy, so those are my props.

Kumutha Ramanathan
I love it. And we actually have another question coming in. What role will Canada's investment community play, and how can we, as an ecosystem, ensure that promising Canadian companies do not move South? This is a problem that we've had in a number of sectors, so...

James Scongack
Right.

Kumutha Ramanathan
...I would love to hear your insights.

James Scongack
So, I think there's three, three key things. So, number one, we need the private sector, we need the investment community. And I would like to see, through the prominence of what we're doing with medical isotopes, you know, I would like companies to be putting this right at the top of their ESG program. So, you know, we know how important it is when you're going to seek institutional loans, you know, that this is valued and recognized as a very critical component of society.

We also we also need to recognize that, you know, some of the work we see with startup organizations here in Canada, we look at the, the regulatory barriers that, you know—for example, the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission has been a very strong regulator on breaking down those barriers, creating that alignment. And the profile around it can create a lot of, a tremendous amount of investment routes.

But the most important advantage Canada has is our production. And sometimes we don't leverage our production capability enough. And with that production capability comes the ability to work with organizations to say, we want to do more of the processing here, we want more of the value chain in here for Canadians, we want more clinical trials of some of these treatments to start here in Canada. And I do think, at the international level, we do need to work—and we talk about this in the report—harmonize between, you know, Health Canada, and the Food and Drug Administration, and other health regulators. Because there's a lot of treatments for cancer patients that, often what will happen is, pharmaceutical companies will start in the largest markets. And you understand that...

Kumutha Ramanathan
Right.

James Scongack
...but we need harmonization between, you know, similar to what we did during—and I’m not making about vaccinations, but quite similar to that process where we create that harmonization. And so, I think the combination of that, but being assertive about our production position and saying, you know, we want this to be at home here. You know, our CEO, Mike Rencheck—you know, gonna give him just a lot of credit. When he came in as the CEO of Bruce Power in 2016—and many nuclear suppliers are in the room—what he said is, it's great all of you organizations want to do business with us; but I want you to be based in Grey Bruce and Huron County—and I see Jessica Linthorne and [indiscernible] here—it's the same concept with isotopes. You want to be a part of this, this is a two-way street. And once it's here, it's not going anywhere.

Kumutha Ramanathan
And talk about timeliness, the federal budget laying out the green initiatives and, you know, that will help advance the cause.

James Scongack
Absolutely. You know, and what I was really excited in the federal budget about—we talked about it—is the Strategic Innovation Fund has another five hundred million dollars allocated to it. We've been working as a sector with the Strategic Innovation Fund; Pam has been a tremendous advocate for us. Also want to see the Canada Infrastructure Bank recognize the role of medical isotopes in their programs, and I think the federal budget set that. You saw a lot in the federal budget around Indigenous partnership. So, you know, all around, for me, the federal budget and the timing of this is not, you know, we weren't, we didn't just kind of trip over the timing. We wanted to come out with a report right after the federal budget. Because the federal government has put money on the table, and now we want to say, okay, here's how we'll use it. I think it's also important to recognize the provincial government here in Ontario that we would not be talking about any of this if we didn't have our nuclear fleet. It would not exist. And so, the stable energy policy, the support for Candu refurbishments, the discussion with Premier Ford this morning, that's an important ingredient as well.

Kumutha Ramanathan
A new era is born.

James Scongack
Absolutely.

Kumutha Ramanathan
You must be so excited.

James Scongack
Now, are we almost out of time?

Kumutha Ramanathan
We are, indeed.

James Scongack
So, there was one question you didn't ask me...

Kumutha Ramanathan
Okay.

James Scongack
...and it is, why do I have blue socks on?

Kumutha Ramanathan
Right.

James Scongack
People always say this is a bit corny after a speech like this, you talk about blue socks. So, when you go on to BNN next...

Kumutha Ramanathan
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...I was wondering if you could put your feet up on the desk on live TV, and if you put one of our Bruce Power Medical Isotope socks on? But the even, the better news with this is, every one of these we sell—don't worry, we bought it for you—the proceeds go to the Pediatric Oncology Group of Ontario and the Brain Tumor Foundation. So, let's look for these on BNN next time, and thanks for having me.

Kumutha Ramanathan
Absolutely. And if I don't go into labour beforehand, you will see them.

James Scongack
You can wear them in labour, too.

Kumutha Ramanathan
Thanks, thank you so much. Cheers.

Sal Rabbani
Thank you.

James Scongack
Thanks, man.

Sal Rabbani
Thank you. Thank you very much, James and Kumutha, and happy to have you back here again, anytime. It was insightful, it was informative, and an all-encompassing conversation. So, thank you very much. I'd now like to take this opportunity to invite Jess Dixon, MPP and Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Energy, Government of Ontario, to deliver the appreciation marks.

Note of Appreciation by Jess Dixon, MPP, Parliamentary Assistant, Minister of Energy, Government of Ontario
Good afternoon, everybody. As stated, my name is Jess Dixon, MPP for Kitchener South — Hespeler, and also one of the lucky Parliamentary Assistants to Minister Todd Smith. I have to begin by saying how incredibly appreciative I am of the opportunity to be here. The degree of my excitement and my interest in medical isotopes is, frankly, matched only by the degree to which I absolutely do not understand the science behind them. Nevertheless, even a layman like myself, can't help but get excited at the prospect of this, once you know the story of Canadian isotopes, and once you learn about the potential that they hold.

I want to congratulate the Canadian Nuclear Isotope Council on obtaining your not-for-profit status recently, and also, the publication of the Isotopes for Hope Report. You do incredible work when it comes to educating the rest of us about the importance of isotopes, safeguarding their continued supply, and especially, making sure that the policies and the decisions regarding isotopes are science-based, and put public health and safety first. The composition of the CNIC also, frankly, warms my heart. Since entering politics in June of last year, one of the biggest issues I've noticed is siloed decision making. I'm constantly meeting groups of people and then realizing that they have, literally, never spoken to the seven other groups that are, literally, advocating for almost the same thing. Same can happen with ministries. So, to see representatives from the health sector, the research sector, business sector, and the nuclear power industry, all coming together to advocate for the development of Canada's isotope supply, well, it's a wonderful sight. I've heard the “buzzwordy” phrase of a collision conference. But I have to say, when we're talking about nuclear and nuclear isotopes, it's certainly never been more apt than here.

Politicians and policymakers, of course, also play an important role in this. So, I do want to take a moment to sort of beat our own drum here and introduce you to some of my political colleagues present. We, of course, have the Ontario Minister of Agriculture, Lisa Thompson, who's the MPP to Huron—Bruce—of course, the home of Bruce Power—and a huge and long-term supporter of Bruce Power. We have Rick Byers, the MP for Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound; and Rick brings his decades of past experience in accounting, finance, and government, to his current position as the Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Finance. We also have Natalia Kusendova-Bashta, the MPP of Mississauga Centre; she was introduced as the PA of Francophone Affairs, which might make you wonder why she's here. I'll tell you why she's here. Natalia is a registered nurse; she still practices, in addition to being an MPP. She has a second Bachelor of Science in Human and Molecular Biology, and she's currently doing her master’s in nursing. So, she was the person I picked to bring me to Bruce Power when we did our isotope tour.

Now, I've read the Isotopes for Hope Report. It makes it crystal clear how necessary it is that Canadian government and Canadian leadership take action; and I sincerely hope that the report, and that the continued and ongoing advocacy of CNIC, will prompt that action. Certainly, as far as Ontario goes, I'm standing here today on behalf of Ontario's Minister of Energy, Todd Smith, and reiterating our government’s strong support for both the nuclear sector at large, of course, and specifically, the work that the sector is doing to help supply the world with lifesaving medical isotopes. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but nuclear really is the backbone of our system. With Bruce, Pickering, and Darlington together, providing about 60% of Ontario's base load, which is quite incredible, and a stat that I wish more people knew.

Now, I personally grew up in what I would call a pro-nuclear family. My mother was born and raised in Deep River, where literally everyone, including my grandfather, worked at “the plant,” which is the Chalk River NRU. My dad's an engineer and he worked at BWXT for years, before transferring to AECON to run their N-Stamp Program. Which makes me, probably the only PA to Energy whose dad, on hearing about my appointment, pulled out, literally, a kitchen table-size schematic of a Candu reactor, and started quizzing me on my knowledge of feeder tubes. Enough that, depending on the audience, I can go in and say, oh, are those steel or carbon steel? It ends there. Still, what amazed me was, despite that background that I personally had, I admit I knew nothing about isotopes. I had no idea how absolutely essential our province and our country were in saving lives all across the world. And sadly, my lack of knowledge is not unique. The truth is, Canada is a world leader in isotope innovation, development, and production; but it's time for Canada to actually recognize and realize that. And that's why I'm so grateful to the CNIC and all the partners in this industry for putting in the work to make that happen. And again, I seriously hope that Canadians start to understand how incredible it is that we're using operating nuclear power generators to produce isotopes, and not just research facilities.

As James said, our Candu reactors produce most of the world's supply of Cobalt-60. And that made-in-Ontario Cobalt-60 was absolutely essential to medical communities around the world, during the pandemic, and onwards. Of course, Bruce Power or OPG are full speed ahead when it comes to exploring new opportunities for harvesting and supplying isotopes. We have OPG's subsidiary, Laurentis, collaborating with BWXT Medical to produce Molybdenum-99 at Darlington, which is the first time in the world that this isotope has been produced at a commercial power reactor—which again, is huge. Molly-99, of which Ontario made a large percentage, is used in 80% of diagnostic nuclear imaging worldwide. And our reactors here in Ontario are the only source of it in all of North America.

Over at Bruce Power, working together with isoGen, and ITM Isotope Technologies of Munich, and of course, the Saugeen Ojibway Nation, they've just begun commercial production of another vital medical isotope, the Lutetium-177. Bruce is also working with Boston Scientific to explore the feasibility of producing the cancer-fighting Yttrium-90. And these partnerships continue. Last year, Bruce Power, partnering with isoGen, launched the Ontario Isotope Innovation Hub, to bring together experts, across the centre.

McMaster University is also in the mix, too, collaborating with Promation Nuclear to bring new medical isotope technology to the market. As James said, our budget, announced last week, included 6.8 million for McMaster’s program, in order to help them continue producing those, developing emerging new treatments, and improving outcomes for 70,000 patients a year. I will mention that in the car on the way here, Natalia and I were talking about that, and we would really like an invitation to McMaster. So, please keep that in mind.

Ultimately, as these partnerships demonstrate, by leveraging our collective knowledge and expertise, we can create something truly extraordinary. Together, we can and will make sure that the province of Ontario and the country of Canada is at the forefront of isotope innovation. And together, doing that, we will save lives. Thank you so much.

Concluding Remarks by Sal Rabbani
Thank you, Jess. And thanks again to Sussex, and all our sponsors for their support; and to James Scongack, Chair of the Canadian Nuclear Isotope Council; and everyone joining us today in person or online. As a club of record, all Empire Club of Canada events are available to watch and listen to on demand on our website. The recording of this event will be available shortly, and everyone registered will receive an e-mail with the link.

Our next event of the 119th season will be at the Arcadian Court on Friday, March 31st. I will be joined by the Honourable Peter Bethenfalvy, Minister of Finance, for a conversation on Ontario's 2023 budget, where he will share more about how the province is building a stronger Ontario for families, workers, and businesses.

Thank you for joining us today. We invite you to stay and join us for continued networking. Have a great afternoon. This meeting is now adjourned.