Indigenous Women in Business

Jun 12, 2023

The Empire Club of Canada Presents

Indigenous Women in Business

Chairman: Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada

Moderator
Caitlin Tolley, Board Director, Empire Club of Canada

Distinguished Guest Speakers
Christina Reynolds, Senior Advisor, Indigenous Relations, Hydro One
Jenn Harper, Founder & CEO, Cheekbone Beauty Cosmetics Inc
Tabatha Bull, President & CEO, Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business
Tammy Brown, National Industrial Markets Leader, KPMG

Head Table Guests
Alison Fernandes, Supplier Relations, Indigenous Procurement, Diversity, Equity & Inclusion, Bruce Power
Sal Rabbani, President of the Board Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Marsha Roote, HR Specialist, Diversity, Equity & Inclusion, Bruce Power

Introduction
It is a great honour for me to be here at the Empire Club of Canada today, which is arguably the most famous and historically relevant speaker’s podium to have ever existed in Canada. It has offered its podium to such international luminaries as Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan, Audrey Hepburn, the Dalai Lama, Indira Gandhi, and closer to home, from Pierre Trudeau to Justin Trudeau; literally generations of our great nation's leaders, alongside with those of the world's top international diplomats, heads of state, and business and thought leaders.

It is a real honour and distinct privilege to be invited to speak to the Empire Club of Canada, which has been welcoming international diplomats, leaders in business, and in science, and in politics. When they stand at that podium, they speak not only to the entire country, but they can speak to the entire world.

Welcome Address by Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon. Welcome to the 119th season of the Empire Club of Canada. I'm delighted to be here with you and our esteemed speakers today. Thank you for your participation and support. Our role at the Empire Club is to inspire thought leadership and learning. As a trusted forum for conversations that matter, we provide a platform for the professionals of our community to profile their expertise. We hope to spark meaningful connections and productive dialogue by giving you, our incredible colleagues and peers, access to this nation's diverse wealth of knowledge and leadership. Welcome. My name is Sal Rabbani, and I’m the President of the Board of Directors at the Empire Club of Canada.

To formally begin this afternoon, I want to acknowledge that I’m hosting our meeting today on the traditional and treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wyandot Peoples. We encourage everyone to learn more about the traditional territory on which you work and live.

Today, we come together to celebrate National Indigenous History Month; a month dedicated to recognizing the immense contributions and diverse cultures that First Nations, Inuit, and Métis people have made to our society, to honour the progress that has been made towards reconciliation, and to acknowledge the work that remains to be done. We have a panel of three extraordinary women ahead, moderated by my super board colleague Caitlin Tolley, who also put forward today's event. We usually have a healthy debate on all of our event topics at the Empire Club, and we want to make sure that we bring you the most relevant and thought-provoking conversations. But when Caitlin suggested we invite successful Indigenous business for them to speak about their journeys, their success and their challenges, there was absolutely zero debate. It was unanimously agreed that we needed this event.

Despite the progress and significant work being done, there still are some hard realities we need to change. Just to name two of them, Indigenous women hold only 1.5% or less of senior leadership positions in Canadian corporations. And one that really hits home for me—and I know my colleagues focus a lot to fix it, especially with their Indigenous Growth Fund—is the notion of access to capital for Indigenous entrepreneurs. More than half of Indigenous business owners say that lack of access to capital is still a major barrier to the development and growth at their companies. Even if I don't have the data to support this, I would guess that the percentage is even higher for Indigenous women entrepreneurs. This needs to change. More work needs to be done to ensure we're moving in the right direction. We need to get better at listening and learning. And conversations like this one are a great starting point, and they need to be a part of an ongoing process that goes way beyond the very important month of June. It is also about inspiration and role models. Hearing from Tammy, Tabatha, Jenn, and Caitlin inspires and encourages others to dream big. Your success is tangible, as are some of the challenges you had to overcome. We need your stories to be heard by more of us, and so, thank you for sharing them.

Turning to today's program, I want to recognize the Empire Club’s distinguished past presidents, Board of Directors, staff and volunteers. Thank you for your contributions to making this event a success. The Empire Club of Canada is a not-for-profit organization, and we’d like to recognize our sponsors, who generously support the club and make these events possible and complementary for our online viewers to attend. Thank you to our lead sponsor, Hydro One; and thank you to our season sponsors, Bruce Power, Hydro One, and TELUS.

If you require technical assistance, please start a conversation with our team using the chat button on the right-hand side of your screen. We are accepting questions from the audience for speakers through the Q&A portal under the video player. It is now my pleasure to invite Christina Reynolds, Senior Advisor, Indigenous Relations, at Hydro One, for the welcoming remarks. Christina, welcome.

Opening Remarks by Christina Reynolds, Senior Advisor, Indigenous Relations, Hydro One
Thank you, Sal, and thank you to the Empire Club for hosting this event and offering the space for leading-edge conversations across subjects of importance to Canadians. As Sal said, my name is Christina Reynolds, and I am pleased to represent Hydro One as a proud supporter of this important discussion, and as an organization that values strategic leadership and critical discussions across Ontario and in Canada. Hydro One has been on a journey of transformation and action to advance reconciliation. What we have learned will become critical for our collective future success. Through our work over the last two years to develop two major transmission lines in the province, we realized that the way we were engaging with Indigenous communities was not working, and we had to change that. Members of our team began to talk to Indigenous leaders, visited communities, continue to learn more about the Treaties, and took the time to truly listen. Engagement with Indigenous communities evolved partnership. In the coming years, we will need to build projects and infrastructure at an unprecedented rate to meet our 2030 and 2050 net zero goals. We can only achieve strong Indigenous partnerships based on transparency, collaboration, and mutual understanding. We are in the process of setting aggressive Indigenous procurement targets at Hydro One, and we will continue to transform our approach and form more partnerships and ways to share in the economic benefits Hydro One can offer. It's a new way of doing business for Hydro One, and we look forward to working with Indigenous partners, such as the amazing women on today's panel.

I'm not one to share my story broadly, but during my time at Hydro One, I have come to understand and appreciate that this isn't only my journey. It's about community building and allowing others an opportunity to see who we are as Indigenous women. I have predominantly worked in male-dominated environments, from police foundations, and later as a foreperson, leading a crew as a utility arborist. Lacking support from my husband, I moved on to forestry, and later led a team in the telecommunications industry. I struggled for many years without the support and understanding of women, my spouse, friends, and even some family members. I was discouraged throughout my journey for being a woman in spaces that I was told were meant for men. I second-guessed my education and lack confidence, when I should have been encouraging myself and allowing myself to accept that I belonged here. It wasn't until joining Hydro One in 2021 that I began to experience support and inclusiveness, not only as an employee, but as a woman with diverse background, bringing various skillsets to a team in a space that is evolving and making true advances towards reconciliation.

I am excited to hear the journeys of today's panelists. We are all here changing the DNA of our society by celebrating the importance of Indigenous women in business. And it is so important to support one another throughout our careers and in daily life. This is an opportunity for us to rise, and to unapologetically take up space. By making room for the women around us, we will allow for more wider perspectives to be integrated into brainstorming, problem solving, and developing new ideas. Our worlds will benefit from different points of views, and approaches that come from our very different experiences. All of our voices combined need to be at the forefront of this space, because I think it moves things forward in a very different, positive, and powerful way. It's up to all of us to make change for future generations and empower Indigenous women.

In the words of Mother Teresa, I alone can't change the world, but I can cast a stone across the waters to create many ripples. I hope that by hearing the stories from today's panelists, that you will find encouragement to continue unapologetically on your journey as strong, independent women, and allies. Thank you. And I'll turn it over to Caitlin.

Caitlin Tolley, Board Director, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Caitlin Tolley, and I am Algonquin from Kitigan Zibi, Quebec. I want to thank Christina for her opening words. Christina, you are a leader; you should be on this panel, and I just want to thank you for sharing your story, and to Hydro One for their generous sponsorship. As you said, Christina, now is the time for us to rise. So, I am here today in my capacity as a Board of Director with the Empire Club of Canada, and I am very thrilled to be moderating this panel focusing on Indigenous women in the business sector. I look forward to hearing the stories of our panelists, and the wisdom that we have to share, that they have to share with all Canadians.

Just to recap, today we have, we are so fortunate to have three amazing panelists. Just to quickly begin, we have Tabatha Bull, who is the President and CEO of the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business; we also have Tammy Brown joining us, who is the National Industry Leader for Industrial Markets, and the Deputy Chair of the Board of Directors at KPMG in Canada; and we have Jenn Harper, who is the founder and CEO of Cheekbone Beauty. So, I'm so thrilled to have this inspiring panel. So, I'm actually going to begin the discussion by giving the panelists each a few minutes to introduce themselves and share a bit about their career journey. So, I'm actually going to begin with Jen. So, please unmute yourself.

Jenn Harper, Founder & CEO, Cheekbone Beauty Cosmetics Inc
Hi, good morning, Aanii Boozhoo. I'm Jenn Harper, founder and CEO of Cheekbone Beauty. Caitlin, I just want to thank you for putting this together. It’s such an important conversation for us to have, and it is truly an honour to share space with all of the women today, including yourself. I'm trying to figure out how to tell you the, like, the quick story about Cheekbone Beauty and myself in five minutes, so I'm going to do my best. But I started the brand in the corner in my basement with very limited funds. As mentioned, the funding that goes to Indigenous women, the stat is actually 0.00001% of funding goes to Indigenous women, in terms of venture capital, what's available out there, and all other sort of funding avenues. And so, I feel very fortunate that on this journey I have received funding. And I'm super, super grateful for that, and recognize how truly unique my, the position of me and this brand was.

So, my career was not in the beauty industry whatsoever. So many people think I was a makeup artist, aesthetician, or worked in the beauty space in some capacity. That is not true. I was selling fish at the time of having that incredible dream back in 2015. And the dream, it was three Native little girls covered in lip gloss, making a complete mess of themselves. And I woke up, grabbed my laptop, and wrote the beginning or the foundation of what our brand is today. And that was, I wanted to create a product—at the time it was just lip gloss—and use a portion of those profits to do something to support my community. I had no idea what that was or what that looked like. And the idea that I had that evening was a scholarship fund in honour of my grandmother. And if I think about that sort of space and time in my life, I was learning about my grandparents’ experience at residential school. I was on my own personal healing journey, and then had this dream. And that was the beginning of me spending—I guess the rest is really history—working on this for the last seven years to build a brand. We are now available in 52 Sephora Canada locations, 609 JC Penney locations around the United States. And I think my role in this world and as an Indigenous woman is to show our people and our communities, and for us as a brand, specifically our youth, that truly anything is possible when you put your heart into an idea or an actual dream that woke you up in the evening. Thank you.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you, Jenn, for inspiring Indigenous young girls across the country to follow our dreams, no matter how big they are. I'm going to ask Tabatha to introduce herself.

Tabatha Bull, President & CEO, Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business
Sure. Thank you, Caitlin, it's a pleasure to be here. And thank you to Christina for sharing so openly and honestly your experience. Aanii boozhoo, [indiscernible] Nipissing. Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks, Jenn, for sharing. I feel like there's so much more to your story and the incredible success you've had. So, I, you know, just a bit of my journey. I'm an electrical engineer. And I initially went into engineering to work with my own community and other Indigenous communities on energy projects. My dad, actually, was retired from the energy sector in Ontario, and the last part of his career worked with communities on past grievances for, you know, some of the very difficult things that happened in our province with respect to energy flooding of communities and cemeteries. And I saw him doing that work, and was very inspired by that part, ending his career that way. But also knew that, you know, there aren't a lot of Indigenous engineers—a very small percentage—and how could I, you know, go into engineering, and work to be bit a bit of a bridge between communities and the energy sector. So, I actually worked in engineering in the electricity sector for about 15 years, the last part of that working directly with communities across Ontario on renewable energy projects and programming to support remote communities’ connection to the grid. It was a very rewarding part of my career and I, you know, I kind of got to a point where I felt like this is what I set out to do, and now, what's next? And I wanted to continue to work with Indigenous people, and communities, and businesses, but knew in the organization that I was in, I wouldn't be able to continue to do that and pursue more steps in my career.

So, I'd actually joined CCAB's board—I was very familiar with Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business from attending galas and events, and very inspired by the work they did. So, I had joined their board for all of one meeting, and then the Chief Operating Officer position came up. So, it was a, it was a big leap to leave a fully pensioned, fully benefits organization that I had been with for 15 years—we call those golden handcuffs—but I've always really believed that I need to be able to do something that makes a difference. And you know, when the kids were little—I have two boys—and when they were little, leaving or missing events, or missing hockey games, I wanted to have a reason that I felt was really meaningful, and that I was making change. So, took the leap to CCAB, and then just over a year-and-a-half later became the CEO, right in line with the pandemic. And it's been an incredible three years—feels like 30, but three years—but it's been great. The people I've gotten to meet, like those of you, and the experiences that I've had, I would never turn back, for sure. Miigwetch.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you, Tabatha, for sharing, and your ability to be a bridge between communities and the private sector is also a personal goal of mine. So, thank you for sharing that. I'm going to go to Tammy to introduce herself.

Tammy Brown, National Industrial Markets Leader, KPMG
Thanks, Caitlin. And thank you so much first for the opportunity to be here with Jenn, and Tabatha, and yourself, and Christina as well, with that opening; really hits home. And so, for myself, I'm mixed heritage. My dad's English Irish descent, mom’s Ojibwe. We’re members of the Shawanaga First Nation, which is about 25 minutes north of Parry Sound and kind of on the way to Tabatha in Nipissing. Career-wise, I knew from a very young age I wanted to do something, I'm going to say risk-averse. I was looking for some serious security in my future job and future career, so I set out to become a chartered accountant. Left Parry Sound and went down to Laurier, because that was a university that was only slightly smaller than the town that I grew up in, and I thought I could handle that. So, I took on going to Laurier. And then from there, looking at job opportunities, and I really had a goal of never being, never living or working in Toronto, and I’ve failed miserably, because I took a job in Mississauga, and thought at the time—and this is almost 30 years ago—that I would have a good two-year plan. When I was going to get my CA in the city and then get myself back up north where I was way more comfortable and I had a lovely job offer from a very small firm up there waiting for me.

But honestly, the learning and the stretch opportunities kept coming. And I discovered that I really enjoyed the challenge and growth that I was getting through my roles at KPMG. You know, you fast forward, I kept putting my hand up for more HR-type things. But again, slightly risk averse, I also wanted to keep the technical up and be really, really strong with clients and markets, and not close any doors. So, that was kind of how I kept building and changing my career path along the way. And now I look back and I'm, like you said, I'm the National Leader for Industrial Markets, I'm starting my second term as our deputy, there, on the Board of Directors, and most significantly for me is, I'm the executive sponsor for our National Indigenous Peoples Network, and lead a lot of activities for our Truth and Reconciliation Action Plan, which is really, really important to me. I always thought, you know, eventually, I'd have to retire, to go back up north and find some way to give back and be part of, be closer to my community and do something for them. And I can't believe how fortunate I feel that I get to do that in the role that I've chosen here. I get to have an impact. And it means a lot for me to be able to be part of something that is—and probably even more so having a bigger impact in corporate Canada than I could have if I'd gone back and taken that job that was waiting for me after all those years, a long time ago. So, that's my long-winded who I am and why I'm here today. Thanks, Caitlin.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you, Tammy. I think your lesson of pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone along your career path is important for young professionals to try new opportunities, even if it sometimes feels scary. So next, I'm going to pose another question to all the panelists. I'm going to begin with Jenn, but I'm going to ask you to kind of speak about why you think you've had success in your career. Was there a pivotal moment, or was it like kind of like a slow climb to where you are now? Or were there any limitations or obstacles? So, I understand that that's a big question, but I'll let you kind of take, speak to what you think the audience should hear.

Jenn Harper
Yeah. So, for me, personally, I think I've always been a really hard worker. And so, whatever task or role I was given at any position that I held, I always really took ownership. And I guess I've always had that entrepreneurial kind of spirit. And I know within many organizations, there's room for those kind of people. And I feel, you know, for us at Cheekbone, especially as a startup, we love people that have that entrepreneurial spirit while they're working within our organization, because it takes tons of creative minds and space to be able to build something. And so, I definitely had that throughout my career. My journey is really, really different. I did not, I was never like a strong student, so I never did really well in school, in secular education. But I did discover as an adult that I’ve always like loved learning, but I think I really needed to be in control of what I was learning. In the two years before we launched Cheekbone, I remember reading like over a hundred books just on, you know, entrepreneurship, building a business, all different kinds of strategies that relate to building a business, other entrepreneurial sort of biographies and their journeys, which has proven to be, you know, super helpful in seeing, I think, the insights into this world.

But when I discovered that, you know, that my way of learning was not necessarily set up for the how the system wants to teach us. And so, of course, something that I love sharing with young Indigenous people, that's not necessarily, it's not that you're not good at something, it's just maybe wasn't designed for us. And so, helping them understand that. And as a parent now of two children, one that thrives in the academic system, and having one that was more like myself that didn't, but thrived in other ways, especially in in creative spaces, and or using their hands to do work was, it's really interesting to see that side of things from a parent perspective. And so, I think doing things and being really open to having great relationships, not only with your leadership teams in the early days of my career, I spent the first half of my career was in the food space. So, I was selling seafood, but I worked for Broadline Distributions in sales and marketing, like Sysco. And prior to that was in the hospitality space for 10-plus years. And in all of those roles became in a management position really, really quickly. And I think it's just because I took initiative. And so, if you're a hard worker and take initiative, then you really have so many opportunities to grow and then discover those are definitely entrepreneurial skills.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you. I really liked your comment where you mentioned that these systems aren't built for us. I think that's an important reminder for all Canadians. So, next I'm going to go to Tabatha to also ask you the similar question as to why you think you've had success in your career. Was there a pivotal moment, or, you know, was there any limitations or obstacles that you had to overcome to achieve the success you've had today?

Tabatha Bull
Sure. Thanks. So yeah, I think kind of similar to Christina's reflections, I, you know, I did come from the energy sector. I was often, you know, initially working in consulting and construction. So, as an engineer going to the construction trailer, I was definitely the only female in the trailer, and the only female on site numerous times. My husband is in the same business; that's actually where we met. And then really just seeing the difference and the opportunities that he had to build relationships and to, you know, maybe it's like, attend a Leafs game, or go on a ski trip, or go golfing, or there was all of these other opportunities that he had to build his network that I didn't have the same opportunity. And that definitely, you know, made me have to work harder at building those relationships and having to work harder as well, just to be seen. So, you know, that's definitely obstacles, an obstacle, I think, that still exists. I mean, that was 20 years ago, and things are improving, but there is definitely still a camaraderie that happens in the corporate sector, and definitely in construction and in engineering sectors as well. And I think it was just about, you know, ensuring that I continue to like put myself out there, and work, and always ensure that I was up for the challenge, as Tammy said, to push.

But I, you know, I think—and then when I started to move into working with Indigenous communities, I believe I had success there because I am a very honest, transparent person, and I ensure that I stick to my values in everything that I'm doing. And that work of going out to communities and doing consultation definitely meant that I had to spend a lot of time building trust of the people in the communities. And I think I was successful in that job because I really was—and still continue to—really hold very true to my values of being honest and transparent. And I think now, the success I've had in this role definitely are opportunities that I never would have imagined ever having as, you know, I think Tammy and Jenn, might, you know, be able to speak to that as well. And it's about like when those opportunities come, even though I might be busy or not want to travel, I have to think. And I always think about the impact that going to this meeting or meeting with this person has on the work that I'm doing and has on this example I'm setting, both to my team and to other young people, Indigenous people, or young women out there. So, really choosing those opportunities, too, based on those same values. I think that's really where I feel like I've had my most success.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you, Tabatha. I think your comment probably resonates with all of us, all the Indigenous women on this panel and watching, that Indigenous women still have to work harder to be seen, and that's a reality that's still exists today in the corporate sector. But also, to challenge yourself and put yourself out there for these opportunities, which I think is also an important lesson. So, I'm also going to go to Tammy, to also ask her to speak to a bit of the success she's had in her career, any pivotal moments, and any obstacles that you may have had to overcome.

Tammy Brown
Thanks, Caitlin. I'm sensing a trend here, just listening to the other answers. I mean, I've kind of always played in the industrial space at work, so. Also, one of the few women in a lot of those organizations, in those boardrooms, certainly out at the inventory counts. I look back and I feel like I worked very hard—and I won't take anything away from that—but I also felt like I was really fortunate. I had, I felt like, ten big brothers at work. So, they coached me, they mentored me, they, I'm going to say treated me like a little sister. And eventually, you know, saw solubility and helped sponsor me to get me to the partnership level. So, I feel very thankful for that. As much as, you know, there weren't a lot of people—well, there weren't a lot of women. There were some back then, but there weren't a lot; so, it was a different time. And so, I'm very fortunate from that. And then Caitlin, it's funny, I was thinking back through into turning points, and when I was a senior accountant—so three or four years in into my career as a KPMG accountant—I was approached for a controller position at Rama. And it would have almost doubled my pay, but the thought of leaving was frightening to me. It was just a non-starter, because I at that point realized I had so much to learn, and I realized that definitely, the question of am I still learning, am I still growing, it was my decision making. And it was like, you know, I'm absolutely not ready to jump at this point; I've got so much to learn and grow here. And that's been kind of my checkpoint as different things come up and different paths open up. Am I still growing? Am I still learning? And that's, for me, a really important part of my decision making. So yeah, I think that's kind of been my, my turning point, even though it was eons ago.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you, Tammy. I like your comment about finding mentors at work and having those kind of aunties or uncles nearby to kind of give you that advice and help to kind of push you, so thank you for that. So, the next question that I'm going to pose, actually, to Tabatha and Tammy, I'll begin with, I’ll ask Tabatha to kind of share some of the work that you're involved with and that you're passionate about, in terms of representation on boards at the C-Suite level, and if you give some insight as to how leaders or people working in the space can promote Indigenous representations in their organizations at the leadership level. So, I'll ask Tabatha, and I'll kind of go to Tammy afterwards.

Tabatha Bull
Thanks. Yeah. So, I, you know I do have the pleasure of sitting on a number of boards, a couple not-for-profit boards, and I'm very passionate about the work that's being done. So, I sit on a not-for-profit, Indigenous housing board here in Toronto, but we also have some properties in Ottawa. But when I think, too, about public sector, private sector boards, and the push to ensure that we're diversifying both women and underrepresented and equity-seeking groups and Indigenous people on boards. So, CCAB is part of the 50-30 challenge, which is a challenge that the government put out some time ago, and KPMG has been involved in that work, also. And we're also doing some research work, really reaching out to Indigenous leaders who currently sit on boards, but also reaching out to potential Indigenous leaders that can take some of those spaces in the future, to really have a conversation about what is, what have been the barriers, or how has the recruitment process been.

When that first CCBA report came out, and I think at that point it had said that of those boards that reported, there were eight seats that had Indigenous leaders on them across what was 230 boards. And I said to my husband at that time, I think I could probably name those eight people, which is just crazy because it's not like I know that many—I mean, I don't know every Indigenous person in this country. But to think that we continue and that boards continue, go to the same people. And in some cases, it was like a person, one person sitting on more than one board. So, we're talking about eight seats, but really, only six individuals. And I think, you know, there are so many highly talented and capable Indigenous people in this country that could take those seats on boards. But we have to, again, ensure that we're pushing that network and that we're looking outside of the criteria that we've always looked at. So, you know, one major criterion has been, do you have C-Suite experience? And we know that there's a barrier to have Indigenous people on C-Suite. So, if we're continuing to stick to that important experience to be able to sit on a board, we're missing a whole group of people. And I think one of the things that we really need to start to look at is what is the capability of that person? So, how does that person respond under stress? How can that person evaluate risk? Is that person someone who can review documents and be able to have an intelligent conversation? Those are the things that we really need to be thinking about, versus what does this person's past resume look like. And if we continue to look at past resume, we're going to be limited into the, how we can actually have real, talented, incredibly smart Indigenous women and Indigenous people on boards.

And I think sometimes, too, there's just these other little small things that we could be thinking about that, you know, if you've made a commitment to have an Indigenous person on your board, but you haven't found that person yet, then actually leave the seat at your board table empty so there's a visual reminder every time you're at a board meeting that we have a job to do to make sure that we're filling that seat. But then also—and just from my own experience—we need to ensure that that it's not that person's responsibility to speak about the Indigenous issues of everything that comes to the table. The entire board needs to look at what is their mission and responsibility with respect to how they're moving forward on Indigenous reconciliation in their in their company. And everyone around the boardroom table needs to be asking the questions about how policies or programs are impacting Indigenous people, not just that Indigenous person that's there. Because that is definitely a heavy load, and also because they have so much more to add than just that perspective.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you. I'm also going to see if Tammy also wants to comment in terms of Indigenous representation on boards, leadership at the C-Suite level.

Tammy Brown
Yeah. Thanks. And very similar to Tabatha, I have been able to be part of various not-for-profit boards. And maybe I'll just bring in one of the ones that I've worked with recently was Women's College Hospital. And in that role, I'm really happy that we took on looking at anti-racism from a board perspective, and thinking about what are the things as a board we can do to impact this. We reached out, we consulted, we looked at our board policies to take an anti-racism lens to them, and really look through. And as Tabatha said, it's, you know, looking to see what are the outcomes you actually needed or were looking for, versus what are the traditional experiences or education criteria that you, we may have put in without thinking about the impact of those. So, maybe you don't need that whatever—I’m not saying we needed university degrees, but if that was one of the criteria, it was challenging what outcome are you looking for and what behaviours are we looking for, and capabilities. Not necessarily the traditional education experience. As well, we look to recruiters who have the ability to bring a diverse group, and not just kind of the traditional Bay Street recruiters that bigger organizations would look to. And then just also owning the education that the board needs to understand equity, and to be able to have good input into managements policies and equity. Because from a governance perspective, you really need to have that understanding before you can and positively impact what management are doing as well. So, just a few more things to consider, but very similar to what Tabatha was saying.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you, Tammy and Tabatha. The next question I have is actually for Jenn. So, we're going to kind of shift perspectives to the entrepreneurial lens. So, Jenn, as an entrepreneur, what would it mean for Canada to come together and support Indigenous entrepreneurs in successfully, or support entrepreneurs in promoting Indigenous women in their business or supporting Indigenous women's businesses?

Jenn Harper
Yeah. So important. I think, you know, when we look at the landscape of small business, our opportunities definitely look different than major conglomerates or larger organizations. And so, I think one way that you know Canadians can support small businesses—Indigenous-owned and otherwise—is definitely to buy from those businesses, and I think make it a real active effort in seeking out businesses that they can support that align with their values. And many—which I think is really interesting when I started to think about this question—many businesses that start in this space are definitely doing things in such a different way than what exists in this space. I was in, you know, I'm in this mode of doing tons of training with Sephora teams across the country in Canada right now. And you know, when I think about, I'm having these conversations with all of these beauty advisors, and I literally said on so many occasions, the world did not need another lipstick brand. And when you're standing in a Sephora amongst a sea, hundreds of brands, which everyone is pretty well aware that all the brands that are on Sephora shelves are actually owned by LVMH, which actually owns Sephora. So, it's this big, you know, completely, I think nepotistic system that's happening within there. And then there's this little brand like ours stuck on a shelf, and how are we going to stand out?

And so, obviously, when we think about how our brand was developed, how we make and create products, we're doing things based on our Indigenous roots, and being sustainable by nature, and bringing bold clean color to this, this clean space that hasn't existed. And so, that's how we're unique. And I really believe it's our Indigeneity and our roots, and this concept that we use to make and create our products, versus how the rest of these organizations are making their products is really different and super, super special. And when I talk about sustainability—I’ve said this over and over again—that Indigenous people are literally the OGs of sustainability. And so, that's a unique feature that there's never been in another Indigenous beauty brand in the world that works with Sephora ever, anywhere on the planet. We are the first one. And when you think of our perspectives and this view, and how we live, and our, sort of our ways of knowing and being, you can imagine how we make and create products, looks a lot different. And it's actually in, probably, opposition to the way the entire Western system works, which is another unique conversation on its own.

So, when you think about supporting a small business or a business that's in these big spaces, the best way that someone can do that is support them by buying from them, by engaging with them on social media, by talking about them on social media, talking about them with their friends. This is a case where loyalty really does matter. If we want to foster, you know, these businesses within our country, you're going to have to continue to support them, offer a service. I thought about what has really been amazing for us as an organization and how we really, truly feel uplifted by Canada and other entrepreneurs in the country, and it certainly is the engagement that we have with people that came from the beauty space in Canada. Then even on our board we have Doug Langmuir, who founded another beauty company in Canada. And I met him because I was speaking at an event, and someone connected us and really the, again, the rest is history in that case. But he jumped in by supporting in ways that I never knew were even possible. And so, how can people support? By offering, perhaps, their skillset, and their time, and efforts to a small organization.

Secondly, buy gift cards for your family members, friends—it's just a great way for you to talk about the brand that you're trying to support. And literally in our case, we're really trying to create a new shift in consumer behaviour, which is quite likely the worst thing to try to do when you're a startup. Sometimes it's easier to just be like a slight disruptor, just by trying to pioneer a whole new way of people shopping. And I'm thinking about our new refillable launch that we've launched in Sephora—which, that would be very long, convoluted conversation, but I'll try to keep it super tight for everyone—it's just this idea of, is refillability a better solution in terms of sustainability than continuing to reuse and having plastic end up in landfill and all those sorts of things. And so, this is a shift from, as a consumer, never in my mind did I ever think buying a refillable lipstick or gloss would ever be an option. And that's where, as consumers, you know, paying attention to the education that small brands are trying to bring forth.

And I think what really was inspiring for me as an entrepreneur, I was invited to NYX, you know, NYX is a Canadian business success story. And they once started out as a small brand and their founder, Joanna, like said to the room that it was Canada. Like, their success has been within the borders of this country. And sometimes as businesses, we look outside of our Canadian borders and think that's where we need to grow to be big. But I think first, the realistic view is, can we grow in Canada? And it's gonna take this entire country to help Cheekbone Beauty grow. And listening to Joanna repeat that over again has been really important for me to recognize as a founder that, yeah, we need this country to help us grow in these spaces first.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you, Jenn. So, as we kind of near the end of our hour together, I'm actually going to ask each of the panelists for any advice that they would give to leaders—whether that is considered to be young leaders or leaders within the business sector or corporations—how can they support Indigenous women in their businesses or career leadership journey? So, I'm actually going to begin with Tabatha.

Tabatha Bull
Sure. Thanks. I think maybe a couple points. So, one, I would say to all the women to support other women. You know, oftentimes we see that sometimes we treat each other as competition. And really, we can be the best allies by collaborating and sticking together. And, you know, as the, you know, just to say about Joanna from NYX, and Jenn, and that, like, relationship. And I was watching all the 10-year celebrations with seeing all those women come together to support, you know, these founders and entrepreneurs that are going through the same thing.

I think the other thing I would say is to really, like, identify what drives you. So, like, career is really important, but what are you hoping to achieve? Like, what are you going to be able to say, like, this is what I was able to achieve. What's driving you to that success? And then, I would say to everybody out there, you know, to use whatever voice you have to make room for other people. So, think about in the room, or the boardroom, or the meeting, or wherever you are, really think about if there's people in that room who didn't participate, and call them out to say, like, you know, did you want to add something? Because it's so easy sometimes to just sit back and the conversation happens and then we move on. But if you're in a space where you can lead that conversation to really say like, did you have something to add? And to also think about your own behavior in those situations. I think you notice that, if you walk away from a meeting and think did I really intently listen to everybody around the room, or were there certain people that I might have been doodling when they were speaking, and why was that? Kind of check your own bias about how much you're really thinking and absorbing, and are you, do you have a bias about people around the table? Are there certain people you listen more intently to than others? And think about how you can be very intentional about taking in what everyone has to say.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you. I'm gonna go to Tammy to offer any closing advice or words.

Tammy Brown
Sure, thanks. I think just a couple of things. So first, reach out, mentor, sponsor, be curious about people you don't know a lot about, to help support them and share opportunities. And maybe a bigger call, because there's a lot of people from large businesses in this audience. And there's so much groundwork to be done to make our businesses representative of our communities. And not just representative, but there's a lot of work—and it can't be done overnight—to make them inclusive enough to provide an environment where young Indigenous women are going to feel the support, feel the belonging, and be able to make the most of their opportunities, and their careers, and their development. So, I think there's a lot to be done, and it's not something that you can just go hire someone and then you're there. You need to lay a lot of groundwork. So, I would encourage others to think about what they can do to get started on that path that actually fits their business. So, it's not the same for everybody. But to think about what their role should be.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you, Tammy. I'm going to go to Jenn to offer any advice.

Jenn Harper
Yeah, I'm trying to think for young Indigenous women in their career today. It's certainly for sure going to be a huge challenge, but I think when you're seeking support, like just not being afraid to ask for it. And one thing that I've learned on this journey is, we're fit and we're put in this system, in these spaces, in these giant corporations, where people literally walk around acting like they know everything about everything. And the one thing I've learned really quickly is most people don't know a lot about anything. And that’s, like, once you’ve recognized that and realize that you're—that you don't have to know every detail about every subject to get involved in something that you're passionate about. And that, really, that layer of humility is so important, which is so lacking in the corporate spaces, to be quite honest. Like so many people are such driven by ego, and how much they think they know, and all of—and honestly, I think it's the most unattractive quality. And so, if you can do your utmost to stay humble and recognize everything you don't know, and the older you get, you'll realize, you know, it's a lot.

Caitlin Tolley
Thank you. So yeah, I just want to kind of just recap that it's important for young professionals to think about what drives you, thinking also not just about your career, but what you hope to achieve, having that perseverance, and staying humble. Humble is one of the teachings within First Nations culture. So, just kind of in closing here, I just want to thank Jenn, Tabatha, and Tammy for their time today and for your words, and I am so inspired. I also want to thank Christina for your opening, for sharing your story with us during your opening, and to Hydro One for sponsoring this panel. I'm now going to hand it over to Sal, to provide some closing remarks before we wrap up.

Closing Remarks by Sal Rabbani
Thank you, Caitlin, and thanks again to our sponsors for their support, and everyone joining us today. A huge thank you to our panelists for sharing your stories and meaningful insights, you are an inspiration. As a club of record, all Empire Club of Canada events are available to watch and listen to on demand on our website. The recording of this event will be available shortly, and everyone registered will receive an e-mail with the link.

On Wednesday, June 14th, join us virtually for discussion that will shed light on the urgent need to address mental health in young adults, including racialized individuals in the workplace. On Monday, June 19th, Premier Doug Ford will deliver an address “Building Ontario,” at the Empire Club. Registration will be available shortly, and we look forward to your attendance at our last in-person event of the season. On Tuesday, June 27th, join us for our Canada Day celebration, “Stories of Caring and Sharing Canada.” This year has presented Canada with unparalleled challenges, requiring the nation to unite as one, and learn about what has and can be done to meet the enormous Canadian and global need for a compassionate Canada today. Thank you for your participation and support. Enjoy your afternoon. This meeting is now adjourned.