Addressing Mental Health in Young Adults, Implications for Workplace Leaders

June 14, 2023

The Empire Club of Canada Presents

Addressing Mental Health in Young Adults: Implications for Workplace Leaders

Chairman: Kelly Jackson, Past President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada

Moderator
Karena de Souza, Founder, Tilt the Future

Distinguished Guest Speakers
Derrick Leue, President & CEO, ProLink
Dr. Deepy Sur, CEO, Ontario Association of Social Workers (OASW)
Denis Trottier, Chief Mental Health Officer, KPMG Canada
Stephanie Jones, Mental Health Facilitator, Speaker & Author, Jones Mental Health

Head Table Guests
Sal Rabbani, President of the Board Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Pearl Sarafian, Director, Client Success Associations & Affinity Groups

Introduction
It is a great honour for me to be here at the Empire Club of Canada today, which is arguably the most famous and historically relevant speaker’s podium to have ever existed in Canada. It has offered its podium to such international luminaries as Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan, Audrey Hepburn, the Dalai Lama, Indira Gandhi, and closer to home, from Pierre Trudeau to Justin Trudeau; literally generations of our great nation's leaders, alongside with those of the world's top international diplomats, heads of state, and business and thought leaders.

It is a real honour and distinct privilege to be invited to speak to the Empire Club of Canada, which has been welcoming international diplomats, leaders in business, and in science, and in politics. When they stand at that podium, they speak not only to the entire country, but they can speak to the entire world.

Welcome Address by Kelly Jackson, Past President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon. Welcome to the 119th season of the Empire Club of Canada. I'm delighted to be here with you and our esteemed speakers today. Thank you for your participation and support. Our role at the Empire Club is to inspire thought leadership and learning. As a trusted forum for conversations that matter, we provide a platform for the professionals of our community to profile their expertise. We hope to spark meaningful connections and productive dialogue by giving you, our incredible colleagues and peers, access to this nation's diverse wealth of knowledge and leadership. Welcome. My name is Kelly Jackson. I am a Past President of the Board of Directors of the Empire Club of Canada, and Vice-President, External Affairs and Professional Learning at Humber College.

To formally begin this afternoon, I want to acknowledge that I am hosting this event today on the traditional and treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wyandot Peoples. In acknowledging traditional territories, I try to do so from a place of understanding the privilege my ancestors and I have had in this country, since they first arrived here in the 1830’s. As farmers in southwestern Ontario, I imagine they felt a very deep connection to the land; and yet, likely did not recognize how that connection was built on the displacement of others. Delivering a land acknowledgement, for me, it's always an important opportunity to reflect on our human connection and responsibility to care for the land, and to recognize that to do so, we must always respect each other and acknowledge our histories. We encourage everyone tuning in today to learn more about the traditional territory on which you work and live.

Stress, pressure to succeed, to always be better, try harder, do more. We know there is a perfectionist corporate culture, that many of us have experienced, where overworking is celebrated and encouraged, and where the line between professional and personal lives is too often blurred. And we know the pandemic has added new layers of complexity, accentuating loneliness, and isolation. Things are changing constantly. The rules we knew yesterday of how we work and how we interact seem to be changing all the time, and all of these things are putting pressure on us. But the effect is exacerbated on young adults. Young adults are reporting mental health issues at a significantly higher rate than older adults. Study after study shows that the pandemic left younger generations with new vulnerabilities around depression, anxiety, the nature of social interactions, loneliness. Young immigrants, women, visible minorities, many equity-deserving groups face additional pressures and stress. And for those that are entrepreneurs running their own business, young people are even more prone to experiencing mental health issues. We have stigma that continues to be an issue. And we are talking more about mental health, and we need to continue to do so. And we know as well that the cost of seeking mental health support is another obstacle for many.

Fortunately, more and more resources are now available; and this is where corporate programs are coming into play, to provide new solutions and access to support for young employees who are struggling with mental health issues. Close to eight million people in Canada are aged 15 to 29; that represents a quarter of the total employed population in our country. Their well-being contributes to healthier workplaces and healthier companies; but more importantly, healthier families and healthier communities. Thank you to our distinguished panelists for being here to raise awareness of this issue. And I'm looking forward to hearing about the tools, resources, and actionable solutions on how to improve mental health in our respective workplaces.

Before we kick off the discussion, I want to recognize the Empire Club’s distinguished Past Presidents, Board of Directors, staff, and volunteers. Thank you for your contributions to making this event a success. The Empire Club of Canada is a non-profit organization. We would like to recognize our sponsors who generously support the club and make these events possible and complementary for our online viewers to attend. Thank you to our lead sponsor ProLink; thank you as well to our season sponsors, Bruce Power, Hydro One, and TELUS. If you require technical assistance at any point during this live stream, please start a conversation with our team using the chat button that you can find on the right-hand side of your screen; we are accepting questions from the audience for the speakers. We encourage you to submit those through the question-and-answer portal under the video player. It is now my pleasure to invite Derrick Leue, President and CEO, ProLink, for welcoming remarks. Derrick, welcome, and over to you.

Opening Remarks by Derrick Leue, President & CEO, ProLink
Thank you kindly, Kelly. And good morning to everyone who's west of Ontario, and Ontario east, good afternoon. I'm Derrick Leue, President and CEO of ProLink Canada's insurance connection. ProLink is an independent insurance brokerage, and we're dedicated to providing tailor-made risk management solutions to individuals, to licensed professionals, and businesses right across the country. And since 2011, we've been partnered with the Ontario Association of Social Workers, to offer their members a custom solution for their professional lives and their personal lives.

On behalf of ProLink, I'd like to express our deepest gratitude for this opportunity to be part of an important event and support the Empire Club [indiscernible] and the OASW. We know we’re at a critical moment in time, as Kelly mentioned. Society is increasingly recognizing the impact of mental health on individuals, communities, and organizations. And so, by prioritizing mental health early on, we can empower today's young adults to thrive, and shape a healthier and more compassionate society. And as a parent of two young adults, I really, truly believe it's our collective responsibility to equip our future workplace leaders with the knowledge, and resources, and support, they're going to need to create environments that foster mental well-being for all of us.

I want to thank the esteemed and dedicated panelists, the organizers, and participants, who come together today to engage in this very vital dialogue. I know our discussions will be impactful, enlightening, inspire meaningful action, and that will bring us closer to a future where mental health receives the attention and support it rightly deserves. We're going to make a difference together and create positive change. I'm now happy to introduce Karena de Souza to get our panel underway. Karen, over to you.

Karena de Souza, Founder, Tilt the Future
Thank you very much. Hi, I'm Karena de Souza, founder of Tilt the Future. My tagline is, essentially, raising future-ready leaders. I've been interested in the future for work for a while, and I'm really grateful to the Empire Club of Canada for inviting me to moderate this panel. Most of you all have read the bios for the three panelists that we have today, so I'd like to introduce the personal side of them. Because my challenge today is actually keeping us on track and getting this entire discussion on an incredibly important topic through before we finish and release you back to the rest of your duties for the day.

So, one of the reasons that I'm very interested in this whole topic is that we as a nation are very interested in having a huge working population. We've got recruitment and retention as key topics that we focus on, and it seems a shame after having done the work of focusing on getting all these people into the workplace that we lose a lot of them to mental health. So, from that perspective, I'd like to frame our question-and-answers today as to what we can do as managers to keep and pay attention to the mental health of the people in our care. And it's not just the young people coming in, but this pandemic has actually done a number on all of us. So, what is it that we should be paying attention to? What is it that we can start the conversation on, and how do we keep everyone on track and committed to this full conversation? So, with that, I'd like to preserve a lot of the conversation here for our panelists. We have Deepy Sur, who’s the CEO of—I’ve lost my notes—hi Deepy.

Dr. Deepy Sur, CEO, Ontario Association of Social Workers (OASW)
Hi, Karena. I'm Deepy, I'm the CEO at the Ontario Association of Social Workers. So glad to join you today on this important discussion that we're going to have together.

Karena de Souza
Yes, Deepy. You and I were talking earlier, and one of the things I loved is how you became the CEO of this major organization just six weeks before the pandemic hit, and you have a lived experience of how the pandemic actually intersected with the lives, in a way that many of us weren't prepared to, as managers who come into this space. I hear that you got two new dogs at that time. So, would you like to—the question I had for you was how did the workplaces need to consider the mental health of young workers? How has the incoming group of young workers changed, and why is this such a big topic that we're dealing with right now? What is it that you're seeing in the social work side; what are the conversations coming to you?

Dr. Deepy Sur
Well, yeah, it's such an important topic. You named it. You know, I remember coming into this role just a few months before COVID happened. And so, you know, we were all thinking about the fact that this was just going to be a short while or a few weeks. But the fact is that a number of people actually started their careers during COVID, entirely virtually. And that was young people entering the workforce for the first time. So, imagine the stressors they were experiencing. In fact, we did a study earlier this year at OASW, and we found that, of the respondents, about two-thirds of women between the ages of 18 and 34 said they were living with a mental health condition. Some of them diagnosed, and some of them undiagnosed, but two-thirds of women between the ages of 18 and 34. So, we know that young people are experiencing very unique challenges. It's an age group that we know is dealing with first time decisions about careers, first time access to the kinds of supports to work virtually or hybrid. They were starting to start thinking about families, and also facing a lot of economic barriers that many of us saw. So, it's important to pay really special attention to our young workforce, because their challenges were really unique.

Karena de Souza
One of the topics that we’d all discussed when we were having our calls before this panel started was how it's also going to be very crucially important—one of the key takeaways we want from this panel, I believe all four of us was to talk about how the various sections of our employee community have access to these tools, and how they actually go about accessing them before they have that sense of truly needing them. Denis, you and I were talking about how, when you feel you're at a moment of being despondent, it's almost too late to start figuring out what is the phone number you should access. How does this work? What are my concepts of confidentiality? So, I'd love you to bring that into this conversation with Deepy about, you know, how people access the tools that they need. And also why, how they come to you, as a mental health officer for KPMG, and say that they might be in need?

Denis Trottier, Chief Mental Health Officer, KPMG Canada
Yeah, I mean accessing the tools, Karena, is one of the biggest challenges. I equate it to a mental health toolbox. Many of our listeners today, perhaps, have taken basic first aid or CPR. But if we asked them right now, you know, if your child comes home and says, “Mommy, the world might be better off without me,” would you know what to say? Would you know what to do? Would you know what tool to access? So, it is so critical that people populate their mental health toolbox before they need it, so you're being on the proactive, versus reactive. With simple things on the work front, like, I challenge our listeners after this call to see if they could find their tools that they have at work. Why is there not a button on your desktop that says, “mental health at ProLink,” or mental health at wherever, so that people can access these tools?

Karena de Souza
And Stephanie, you too had been making mention of that same concept of ease of access and being able to get to these key resources early. And I recall you using an interesting phrase, I think it was, those people in power, like, being able to set in place the toolbox. So, for managers and HR people who might be on this call—either live or accessing it by listening to it later—and I know we have a really interesting cross-section who’ve signed up to listen today. So, we have people from the entire range, all the way from the boardroom to, you know, HR, and incoming young people. So, I'd love for you to speak a little bit as to how we advocate for adding more mental health resources, and make them easier to find.

Stephanie Jones, Mental Health Facilitator, Speaker & Author, Jones Mental Health
I think when it comes to organizations and management, it's important to be consistent with what you're providing in terms of resources. You know, we're back in person, you know, some of us, some people are like, “ohh, you know, it's all great.” I would advise weekly, in an e-mail, just say, these are our resources, don't forget EAP; if you have some, you know, great BIPOC, Black, Indigenous, and people of color resources, stick them in there. It's not something you can kind of forget and address for one week out of the month. You need to be consistent. And a a really big factor here too is your high functioning staff. I lived with depression and anxiety for 20 years, throughout my beginning of my career, university as well—and no one would have guessed that. I'm extremely high functioning, but I was really struggling. So, another thing that I think mentioned really needs to think of—and I would advise—is just assume everyone is going through something; because you can't distinguish who isn't. So, that’s the best mentality to go in, in terms of supporting them.

Dr. Deepy Sur
Stephanie, I could not agree more. I love the idea of sustainability. I think our decision-makers on the call right now, people who are listening and thinking about what they should offer their employees—especially young folks coming in, who don't know what's available. I like the button idea. I like the ability to have quick access through maybe the bulletins or the town halls your leader holds; talk about them at your team meetings. Because I mean, how many of us have been to a team meeting and been asked “hi, how are you?” But maybe it's at the tail end of a meeting and there wasn't really chance to ask, or talk about the stigma with accessing supports for mental health, or even substance abuse issues. Last year, we called upon employers to review their health benefit packages, because you might have access to social work or other mental health professionals; and there are so many of us across Ontario. And we encourage every mental health provider themself to look at their work, but also every organization to double down on their mental health benefits and the access that they provide to employees. At least fifteen-hundred dollars should be available to each employee in their health benefits programs, and that means that the opportunity—as you mentioned, Stephanie—to have sustainable and also ongoing supports for mental health and well-being. It's gonna help our culture in our workplaces as well.

Stephanie Jones
Yeah, I also just want to add quickly, because I think a lot of times it's small things that prevent people from getting help. And Deepy, you'll appreciate this, you know, working with social workers as well. A lot of people, they don't want to use their EAP because they're scared their employer might find out.

Dr. Deepy Sur
Yeah, for sure.

Stephanie Jones
And I can't imagine being, what, 25? You're nervous, right? I think it has to be conveyed, and again reminded, all therapists will lose their license if they divulge any information. So again, same things that seem small, it seems maybe something everyone knows, but not everyone knows that. And you kind of reiterating that, and reminding staff, I think, is very helpful, and kind of just giving them some sort of comfort knowing that, knowing that, you know, it will bring profit.

Dr. Deepy Sur
Great point, yeah. Denis, you were gonna say, I think, something similar, probably.

Denis Trottier
Yeah. You know, the Leading-Edge Employee Family Assistance Program now, you know, it's an old model that's been around for years, right? But some of the models, when you call, you still get white male from Northern Ontario, Denis, as your counselor. Why, in a world where we want diversity, we want people to feel included, why can you not see bios of the counselors that exist now, with many providers? Why can you not get ongoing care, right? Many benefit providers, you have five visits, then what? So, building on what you said, Deepy, of making sure your employee has 1500, or 2000, or whatever to spend on mental health. Imagine a world where you could start with your employee assistance program, have choice on your counselor, and after your X number of visits, probably five or six—which is normally what people have—then you can keep working with that same counselor not to have to start over. That is what effective care that's inclusive, that people feel comfortable with, once they get over this self-imposed stigma about confidentiality. That's definitely explained so well, that people think, “oh, my employer’s gonna know if I called this place.” They don't. Even in my role as Chief Mental Health Officer, I would never know who, of our 10,000 team members, who has called EAP. We just get broad buckets as to what they use it for.

Karena de Souza
That's excellent. One of the things you said earlier on made me think of the—I don't know if any of your kids play ice hockey or rugby, but if you do, like, there's this increased focus on concussions. And it's almost like we should all be accessing our mental health programs for baseline. You know, it's the easiest way to figure out how the system works, who we can have access to, and things like that, and just get a sense of what it looks like on a good day. You know, I often think that might be something that, you know, if we can encourage the people to use, you know, the littlest bit of their benefits package, just to test out the system and get the process right. And I think, Denis, you said something really interesting to me when we had our call earlier, which is, sometimes it's not just for us; sometimes it's for the people around us. You know, and they’re so much part of our success as well. You want to feed on that a little bit and expand on that conversation?

Denis Trottier
Yeah, Karena. The Royal Ottawa did a video on me, my lived experience—so if anybody wants to Google me, you'll see the social media of that event. I’ve watched it 160 times, and I still cry, ‘cause I relive what you bestow to the supporters. And oftentimes we, you know, we don't talk about the supporters enough. In my case, my loving wife, and which she lived through because Denis, a male, was reluctant to go get care. So, let's not forget about the supporter role today. That is an easy time, if you have access to an employee assistance program, or any other of your local resource, to call to say, “hey, my loving partner Karena is going through a difficult time; I'm there for her, but I'm an accountant, what do I know about, you know, supporting the property; could I talk to a counselor to optimize my role as a supporter, and also maintain my wellness.” So, little things like that, when you demystify that in the work front, all of a sudden, your utilization goes up, right? People realize that I can call my employee assistance program for financial planning, career questions. It's not just when I'm in a dark, dark spot, right?

Dr. Deepy Sur
You know….

Karena de Souza
Right—Deepy, I think you're probably gonna say something similar, like feeding into the future of work, where our lives and our work lives are meshing into each other. One feeds into the success of the other. Is that kind of where you were going with that?

Dr. Deepy Sur
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, even before the pandemic, mental health accounted for 70 percent of workplace disability costs; in fact, it was a leading cause of absenteeism. And that cost the workplace six billion dollars annually in lost productivity. Imagine the savings if we were investing in mental health right up front. If we were demystifying, thinking about the stigma, having resources that supported racialized populations, Indigenous populations, people of color 2SLGTBQ+, people that are facing very unique challenges—even before the pandemic, and post-pandemic—imagine what that could feel like for our workforce and what the culture might look like. You talked about meshing the personal. I remember having to introduce my team to my dogs, to my children, to my doorbell ringing, to my Amazon deliveries, to, you know, all of the construction happening out the window, and our disconnection through Internet. We’ve really had to be much more vulnerable with each other to be able to talk about mental health much more openly. And that was a big shift in how we saw investing in our future workforce, and how we thought about leadership as well.

Karena de Souza
Right. And you, you brought up a key point there, retention. Because I think very often, you know, we talk about recruitment and retention. But the energy it takes to recruit somebody new involves so much of the organization, involves so many people, so many interviews, so many, you know, components. And any one person we can keep a little bit longer, any one person we can attract to our organization automatically, really is a plus, in terms of economic well-being for our organizations. Stephanie and I were talking about the younger population in particular, and how the pandemic has changed their confidence levels as they come in. And one of my children actually works for one of the sponsors for this show. And she did most of her first two years during the pandemic. And recently, I was able to go back to England and meet somebody who was my first manager. And I recognized how different my experience in those first six months of learning how to navigate corporate life has been so different for the two of us. So, Stephanie, do you want to talk a little bit more about what we were chatting—you know, the whole EQ skills component.

Stephanie Jones
Yeah. So, I think that's one of the biggest points, and things that we really need to stop and think about. Like you said, for those students who, you know, finished university, and they started their career—first three years online, virtually. That is very difficult to learn, you know, confidence-building, pitching in meetings, time management, project management, even things like multitasking or handling office politics. Those are very difficult to learn when you're kind of stuck at home, and you're also having this weight of the pandemic and mental health issues. And I think we live in a very competitive society, so a lot of us will be like, “well, you guys should know how to do this already.” You know, but this is a, as people like to say, unprecedented situation. We have to meet the young people halfway; we have to, you know, know that some of these things aren't necessarily their fault—they went through a very difficult time—and coming together to see, okay, how can we help them build these skills? How can we help them build confidence? You know, how can we make hybrid work, you know, a good thing for them?

One thing that, you know, we did discuss, Karena—and I want to mention also—is just validation. A lot of young people, they're not getting validation at home—unless their parent is like a social worker or psychologist—they're not, you may not be getting that like, “okay, you know, let me hold you, you went through time, I understand.” Especially for BIPOC and racialized groups, you know. And in our culture it's very much like, “well, you stayed home for three years, and you worked online. What's the problem?” So, for young people to have that at home and then going to work, and then work's not acknowledging, you know, the difficulty they went through, and the trauma they went through, and the years they lost, that is just very—it's isolating, and it's very detrimental, right, to kind of your daily well-being and your enthusiasm for life and for work. So, you know, there are a lot of kind of overlapping concepts and things to think about.

Karena de Souza
It's funny, because when I was listening to what Derrick was saying earlier on about being a parent, one of the other things that strikes me, Stephanie, as you speak as well, is so many of us managers are also parents, right? And I've been reading a lot recently—I do a fair bit of work with Gen Z, or Generation Z. And lecturers are beginning to discover that they have to actually create tighter boundaries around some components, whereas they were used to them, you know, having to loosen the boundaries for others. So, I think you just, exactly as you're saying, we need to be a little bit flexible, pay attention more, to how we can support and scaffold a lot of the elements that young people want. Denis, you were about to say something—I interrupted you, my apologies.

Denis Trottier
You know, Karena, I can't stop but take the accountant off to me, but when our listeners realize that this is one of the only spaces in an organization that the return on investment is greater than a dollar right out of the gate. I mean, you could Google mental health report, and you're gonna see the Bell Canadas of the world using ROI of 4.6 to 1 now; I use about 3 at KMPG. And it's easy to justify, right? Like you just said, Karena, the concept of maybe using headhunters to supplement your team, and so on. You know, you leave KPMG, you take clients with you. So, on the business side...

Karena de Souza
Yes.

Denis Trottier
...I love doing it for the humanitarian, it's the right thing to do, to care for your team. But just, when you know the statistics, you know that—Deepy said earlier, the costs. Another one that always opens my eyes is when doctors use the concept of presenteeism. It's a factor of seven-and-a-half times. So, that means that if you have been off work, Karena, for a month, upwards to seven-and-a-half months already, you haven't been at the top of your performance, of your game. And when we look back on that, it's the reality, right? Cause if Denis has been slipping a bit, that didn't usually happen overnight; it's the potpourri of everything going on in my world. We think work is doing this to us, but I, in seven years, have not met a team member where it was simply work. It's the complexities of life, you know, this new hybrid model, forest fires, what's happening in Ukraine, family issues, right? So, the more we can equip our team members on the proactive side versus reactive, I think the more it's a win-win for all of us.

Karena de Souza
Absolutely.

Dr. Deepy Sur
And it can feel really daunting, right, to some of our listeners. Like, how do I do this? How do I manage all of these; you know, complexities that young people, or my entire workforce, is even dealing with? You know, you were talking about some of the stats. I was astounded to read a study from Boston Consulting Group that said forty percent of Gen Z employees said they were at a mental health breaking point. Forty percent; that's huge. And then, you know, we're talking about other big populations like Baby Boomers, Millennials and Gen. Z. But we know that we need to prioritize the mental health of this population, because they're the future of our workforce.

So, even starting with small things—I was thinking a little bit about you, and your role, and your experience, and how daunting it can feel. And yet, we know that taking those very small steps—Stephanie, like you were talking about—around bringing, you know, those conversations to the forefront all the time. You know, and Karena addressing, like, what it feels like to have these conversations regularly at a team meeting. You don't always need to be an expert on having the conversation. What you need is the ability to hold yourself accountable as an organization, to change, and shift, and talk about mental health and the stigma attached to it, much more differently than we ever have before.

Denis Trottier
You're so right, Deepy. Like it’s—the day that you realize this is an everybody issue, and not an HR issue, that's where you win, right? Demystifying it, like Stephanie mentioned, you know, just talking about it, putting it on the work agenda. Like I love avoiding the mental health parade, mental health week, Bell Let's Talk. Why? Because our team members have so many other amazing things they can participate in. So, why not pick another time, like pre-holidays or post-holidays, to do something around mental health, right? But those little steps of just putting it on the agenda, and picking a team member to talk about a free resource they might have found in the community, it demystifies it, right? It turns into common day language, where people are not afraid to say, “hey, I'm running too hot, Karena, I need help.” Great projects, but what about the other seven projects we're working on, right? It takes the pressure off of thinking I need to be a superhero all the time. Superheroes heroes recharge their cars, or they take off the cape for a little while, and they do refuel, right?

Dr. Deepy Sur
Yeah. And you realize you might not be alone. Especially for me, I've spoken to many young, you know, racialized folks who may not see leaders that look like them or may not know how to have those conversations. And you know, I go out of my way sometimes to ask or to check in with people differently than I might, you know, before, and knowing what their experiences look like, or at least looking for resources that connect people to good mentorship. We know mentorship has shifted the way that people lead, you know, and I just wanted to acknowledge the importance of competency-building for managers and leaders, and people that are even coming to the workforce, to think about leadership. Things like empathy, you know, these are things we talked about in the past; now they're part of our competencies as leadership, as leaders in this new world, especially hybrid. And you know, I see so much of that coming up in this discussion, how we lead as well.

Stephanie Jones
I just, I just wanted to add—you guys kind of touched on, you know, it's good business, right? Everyone knows that. If you're not kind of addressing this junior level, what's gonna happen to all that work? Who's gonna do it? And it is about a generation of workers that, you know, we need to figure out, because we do need them. And I think an interesting way to think about this is, there might be all stars that are struggling, and they can't perform, and you're losing what they could have contributed. You know, maybe they, maybe they're really good sales, maybe they have brilliant ideas, you know, maybe they're really driven. But because they're struggling with mental health, they can't bring that to the workplace and to the organization, right?

Dr. Deepy Sur
Yeah.

Stephanie Jones
So, you know, it's kind of a, it's kind of another point of view for understanding the business model, right? You're not gonna get the best, if everyone’s struggling.

Dr. Deepy Sur
Great point. I agree, this is good business sense. Investment in your business, and your future, and your workforce. And these are the leaders of today and tomorrow, and we lead at every level we're at—and that's something I often talk about, but I love what you're saying, Stephanie, as well. I agree, it's good business sense, yet sometimes very overlooked, right?

Stephanie Jones
I was gonna say, it's also very good, you know, good for humanity. It's the right thing to do, but it's also a good thing.

Denis Trottier
Let’s not forget, though, that mental health is health. Here's one thing that bugs me as a chief mental health officer: often times, because of that self-imposed stigma, or people's knowledge, it's the notion that stress equals mental health disorder. I think we have to get that out of our vocabulary. Long periods of improperly managed stress could lead to mental health disorders, right? As employers, we have a role to play to make sure we have a supportive environment, that the tools are there, that's not a toxic workplace. But has an employee, too, Denis can't hold the hand of ten thousand employees, get them to click on Mental Health at KPMG to go populate their mental health toolbox, right? So, I think it's important that, as individuals, we get past the Bell Let's Talk. We're good at talking about mental health in the workplace with our families, but I love the new subtitle; it says, “every action counts.”

So, our listeners, ask yourself if you're taking action. And if you're not, why not Google jack.org, Google Movember, Google your local Canadian. Mental Health Association. Don't overwhelm yourself with where to start; start small. Read an article on mental health, right? Like take a re-listen to this podcast, or something like that. Baby steps to populate your toolbox, so that you get comfortable with the tools, and you have them readily available and refreshed. I see a lot of this young talent where I go through their mental health toolbox, they have coping mechanisms—but they're coping mechanisms when you were 21. Now they've got a high-performing career at KPMG, they're in a relationship, they've got a couple of little rugrats, and they haven't updated anything. That's like a first aid kit where your iodine is outdated, 2003, right? So, we have an individual role to play. And often, I think we tend to forget that—it’s employer, employer, employer, but we're in this together to be able to move, to dial, I think.

Dr. Deepy Sur
You're kind of touching on mental health first aid training, which I know you kind of mentioned earlier as well, and we were all chatting about. Not everyone feels comfortable asking, right? Not everyone knows. So, you know, if you are someone who can help organize mental health first aid training, it's short. It's like one day or half-day course, to get your employees talking about signs of distress. If you don't know what mental health first aid training is, it's recognizing those first signs of distress, asking differently, talking about mental health differently, and then getting people connected to the right resources. Exactly what you said Denis. Like, the way that you have conversations with your employees, the ways that you check in, the ways in which you talk about the resources that are both free and accessible, and maybe that are not free, but part of benefit programs. It changes the way that you have those interactions. So, it could be a small first action that would start getting your entire team talking about mental health a little different.

Karena de Souza
I agree, and I think part of—and Stephanie and I had also been talking about that—how sometimes you can think that the problem is you, not realizing how much of it is also, like, reflective of the area around you. So, that also could come up in something like that, you know, where you broaden the discussion and include that, you know, like what part of this is the pandemic, what part of this is just natural adulting? And what part of it is, okay, now I should be paying attention and actually accessing, you know, course benefits that are available to me.

Stephanie Jones
It kind of is a twofold situation though, because there are—sometimes you're pathologizing a little bit too much, and that stigma also right? You don't have to have mental illness to be struggling, and you could just be struggling with mental health. And I think that's another fear factor for people. Like, they don't wanna be depressed, and they don't be diagnosed with that, they don't wanna, you know, fall into that category. But that's not necessarily true, just because you’re getting help. You could just be struggling with your mental health. So again, I think, you know, psychoeducation is also good in the workplace, and who you're bringing in to talk about these sort of things, especially when it comes to stigma.

Denis Trottier
Knowing our role is so critical, and many of us don't know it, even as parents. Unless you became a doctor overnight, who are you to fix that challenge, right? And my go-to resource in this spot is Movember. I love the acronym [indiscernible]. You ask, right, “Karena, how you doing?” And you might say, “I'm fine.” That's been proven, even during COVID, that 71 percent of people say that. That's where I would say, really? Like, how's home schooling? How was your dad, right? Just show that you care. The [indiscernible]. Very important. My role is to listen to you non-judgmentally. Parents on the call—hint hint—oh, take the weekend off, why are you stressed? I think [indiscernible] is critical, and that's why I agreed to be in this session today, is engaging and encouraging our colleagues, our friends, our kids, to access the resources. Well, if we don't know what the resources are, if I don't even know where my employee assistance program number is at work, how can I help you? [indiscernible] “ hey, Karena, thanks for sharing that with me. You know what? I know you're going through a tough time. Why don't we grab a coffee tomorrow?” So, just learning little tips like that language-wise. Jack.org for Youth Mental Health—the five golden rules. The first one is so simple: say what you see. “Hey, Karena, I miss your beautiful smile. Is everything okay?” So, I think when we learn the right language and realize that our role is not to fix it, because we can't—I don't give medical advice. I'm not a doctor; I'm an accountant. But I know the resources inside out, and I drag people to them. That's our role as co-workers, as parents, knowing where these resources are, overlaid on top of the mental health first aid—Deepy, that course is amazing. I think any employer, if you want to give a gift to your team members, send them to go take that course before they even start working for you, because that's a life skill. It's to where they'll learn [indiscernible], even how to talk to someone who's at risk of self-harm. Who would want to be comfortable with that? Especially if you have youth in your life, right?

Dr. Deepy Sur
I think you raised, really, something important, Denis. That, you know, we are definitely talking about how to have conversations, and reduce stigma, and make mental health a part of discussions most regularly at work, and part of your workplace culture and development. But we also need to acknowledge that, even though we're going to create spaces for conversation, those spaces might bring up very complex and serious issues like anti-racism, like inclusion, like leadership, or harassment, or workplace discrimination. We know that our young people are definitely attuned to their rights and social justice, and as a result, they could be really afraid to report incidents of chronic stress. And that could be anything from personal worries about self-harm, or substance abuse, or even suicide, through to what they're experiencing in a toxic work environment. And so, it's incredibly important that people can access those resources, as you mentioned earlier, not just confidentially, but they know where to access them on their own and how to deal with some of the stress. Look at the last three years. We were also dealing with caregiver distress, and we haven't even talked about what it felt like to, you know, be working in one room and have your children logged on just steps away from you, possibly, or to be a young graduate who only knew a virtual learning environment, and then be doing interviews through a virtual online platform and being onboarded that way. There's no cooler talk or coffee chats the same way, that's for sure.

Karena de Souza
And Stephanie, you also had, you were talking about how, through the pandemic, you had, like, life situations happening as well.

Stephanie Jones
Yeah, yeah. In terms of personal challenges, or?

Karena de Souza
M’hm (affirmative).

Stephanie Jones
Yeah, it was a difficult year, I think. You know, again, everyone kind of went through, everyone has their own story for the last two years, I think, regardless of, you know, what, what realm of their life. But you know, everyone had difficulties.

Karena de Souza
Right. And I think, as managers in general, just making sure that, you know, recognizing that sometimes, when someone's not a hundred percent at their desk—when their mind isn't physically with them at their desk—there could be, like Denis mentioned, one of a hundred other reasons, the wildfires, the war, cause you know, they could be affected by a whole bunch of other issues that are going on around them. And just being attuned to this. And I know it expands—I mean, I'm old school, industrial-era manager type, right? So, you know, like, I'm of the era where your work was separate from your home; they never mixed. And that is quite different nowadays. I think as managers we have to evolve with the times. And that might not be comfortable for someone my age, but it's something that we all have to learn in order to be able to survive. I mean, right now, we're actually four generations in the workplace. And that's quite a cross-section to manage—especially if you're in the volunteer space, where you've got people returning to help out in the workplace, but they're not being paid. They have a wisdom to them. And then you juxtapose them against Gen Z, who are just coming out of this virtual environment, that can be quite a cross-section to manage as a manager and get product out, get results delivered. So, I think managing everyone's space, managing their, you know, what they bring with them to the table, just in terms of intelligence and support, but also the life that they bring with them is really crucial.

Stephanie Jones
Sorry, I didn’t....

Dr. Deepy Sur
Go ahead, Stephanie. I was just going to say, as a social worker, we call that looking at the whole person...

Stephanie Jones
Yeah.

Dr. Deepy Sur
…and how they are in their environment. But go ahead, what were you going to say?

Stephanie Jones
Yeah, this is more about generational differences. I think the world's changed drastically in the last 50 years, and in the last three years. The things that young people are dealing with; the cost of living alone, inflation, housing is now becoming impossible for many people, climate change, AI is going to come in—and God knows what that's gonna do to the work world—so I think, you know, we always tend to forget what life was like during that time for us, right? And you know, generations are always kind of pitted against each other, you know, they're entitled, they're this, they're that. But we really need to pause and think about, you know, what they’re experiencing right now in the world that they're coming to agent, because it is drastically different. And that's important to acknowledge and remember.

Karena de Souza
So, we're rapidly approaching the point at which people are going to be returning to their desk. Before we close the official panel discussion, I'd like to quickly ask each of you all in turn: is there a key message or key piece of advice you'd want to make sure that your audience—like, the way I describe it is like, what would you want them to scribble on a post-it and put right in front of them so that it’s always top of mind? Is there, like, a key piece—Denis, would you like to start us off?

Denis Trottier
You know, what came to mind is suffering in silence is easy. Asking for help is difficult, but that's when your recovery starts.

Karena de Souza
That's fabulous. Deepy?

Dr. Deepy Sur
Yeah, I agree. I love what you said, Denis. And I would add that you can do this. If you are a young person, there is help and support out there, not just from social workers, but also mental health professionals across the province; find out what your workplace offers. And if you're a leader or someone who influences your workplace positively, think about empathy as a critical leadership skillset. It initiates that workplace shift that we might be looking for.

Karena de Souza
That's fabulous. Stephanie?

Stephanie Jones
Yeah, so we touched on many really good points, so I kind of want to close with more of a thought experiment. I think for us, we need to think about our parents—or even ourselves if we're, you know, in higher roles or whatnot—what our lives and their lives would have been like if they were able to address their mental health since they were 22. So, what would their happiness be like? What would the relationships be like? Would they be closer, you know, would they not have that stroke, or heart attack, or diabetes, or whatever high stress result? I think, you know, there can be this negative kind of point of view on this of what's happening, like, they're pushing, young people are pushing for mental health. But I think it's good for all of us. I think it's something that we need to work with, I think it's important, I think it can really change lives and make, perhaps, everyone happier, to be honest. And also, considering how do we do that and also be able to succeed as a company, an organization, and being innovative, right?

Karena de Souza
Right.

Stephanie Jones
You know, we're not just doing younger people a favour; it's for all of us.

QUESTION & ANSWER

Karena de Souza
It is for all of us. And that leads greatly into some of the fabulous questions that we've had coming in as people have been listening in on the call. One—I don't know who would take this one, but I'm gonna start off with Denis. It’s: high-quality counseling can be expensive per session, more economic options through various resources are markedly less helpful; how can we increase the quality of affordable council? I guess that's not your department in terms of like....

Denis Trottier
No, it’s a good question, Karena. The underlying thing here is, “I can't afford it,” so I think what's important here to realize is that there are a lot of resources out there that are free, but most people do not know about them. On the counseling stuff, [indiscernible] is a lot cheaper than many other counselors; you know, I think it's 80 bucks an hour. Quality should be as good, cause it's the same counselors that used to work for the big companies. Now, because of this new hybrid model, they're working on their own. And I know they've nailed the diversity piece before the big providers have. So, there's things like that. But there's also programs, Karena, like BounceBack. It's a model from the UK that's free right across Canada now, thanks to the Loblaws Foundation. Psychiatry at the top, psychologists, social workers—any of our listeners can self-refer to BounceBack right after this. Free stop, counseling, access to all these amazing guides, Jack.org, the plan for resilience that was developed by the Center for Mental Health in the Workplace. So, I think, if people just take the time of just Googling mental health in their community, they quickly find all of these resources that they can put in their toolbox, or maybe share at work, put on their interweb, right? We have a button that says, “free resources for you and your circle of care.” And I had a lot of team members saying, “Denis, I take care of my aging dad; they don't have the same benefits I have at KPMG.” So, making these things that are free, paid by our tax dollars, even Mind Beacon, it's a new therapist on your home, that was free during COVID¬ now I think about five hundred bucks for 12 weeks of counseling. So, there's a lot of little things like this, Karena, once we start looking around, that we find. But I'm lucky, I work in this space. But if folks invest a bit of time, they’ll find things.

Dr. Deepy Sur
I think it would be—I agree, there are so many free resources. It'd be important to add that, you know, we are constantly advocating to our government the importance of addressing those waitlists in the communities. We've seen long waitlists for community mental health crisis shelters, hospitals, emergency departments; and so, we are, I think we need to still put the pressure on making sure those free resources, they're not time limited, or not just pilots; they're available. And more than that, I really encourage organizations to think about their own health benefit plans, and providing that access not just to individuals, but to their families, to their loved ones. Those health benefit plans are often the only lifeline people have to accessing mental health supports—that could be a social worker or other mental health professional. But you know, just a small reminder that there's no absence of mental health needs out there in order for us to invest in mental health supports by doubling down on what our benefits offer.

Karena de Souza
Right. And I remember Denis saying, like, you know the return on investment in this area is, like, significant. So, that's great. We have another great question here. It’s, if I work for a toxic company, what are my options as an employee to advocate for myself, instead of simply leaving and going to another job—which feeds beautifully into retention conversations. Who would like to take that one?

Dr. Deepy Sur
Well, it’s a tough one.

Karena de Souza
It’s a great question.

Denis Trottier
Like, you know, I deal with this, ‘cause I deal with clients sometimes, and friends of the firm. You could complain about it, or perhaps you could be an agent of change. And that could be as simple as approaching HR or one of the leaders and saying, “hey, I'd like to host a seminar on X-Y-Z.” I've seen that in action, where a young talent member says, “I'd like to host a seminar on youth suicide.” You know, as the leader, pretty hard to say no. But then it's kind of, “well, what do you have in mind, Stephanie?” “Well, my neighbor is a psychiatrist, blah, blah, blah.” And I'll bring them in, right? So, I think we can take individual action to move the dial around that, versus just quitting and leaving, because you may end up in another environment that's even worse. So, why not try to [indiscernible] drawing on some of the tools that you've learned, especially if you've participated today and using your voice where you work?

Karena de Souza
I think that’s—sorry, go on, Deepy.

Dr. Deepy Sur
Small plug. I was just going to say—small plug. Also, I think Stephanie, you maybe even touched on this earlier: toxic environments can be created by so many things. So, you know, just a small shout out to whoever ask that question, get some support and help to talk about what's happening, because if it is serious, if it's related to anti-racism or bullying, or the unique experiences of you as an individual, you don't deserve to experience that. However, if you have a chance to influence the culture by talking to a trusted leader or mentor, you know, I think there are probably people who may want to listen to listen differently.

Stephanie Jones
I would also say, just clinically, you know, make sure you have the support yourself. You know, make sure you have a therapist or person that you can talk about with this before you go into those conversations, and afterwards—because it might not go well either, right? So, you need to know that for yourself.

Dr. Deepy Sur
I agree.

Stephanie Jones
I do think there is an element and a purpose in being a bit more honest with management. I mean, given what we've gone through, you know, most know, like, it can be difficult right now. So, I think, you know, choosing your words carefully, writing down what you're going to say, you know, kind of knowing, perhaps if it's about workload, coming with solutions and kind of explaining what the issue is. I do think people are a bit more receptive, it's just the way you say it, how you go into it.

Karena de Souza
And I think that is a great way for us to finish today's discussion, because the young members of today's workforce are the leaders of tomorrow. So, it's fabulous to test out your powers now, and leave behind a really good culture, instead of just leaving an organization. I'd like to thank each of you for being part of our panel today. On behalf of the audience, I am really grateful that you all incorporated your personal stories into your answers here and gave us such a great amount of information and resources that we can all lean into. And with that, I'd like to say thank you, and return the panel to Kelly.

Note of Appreciation and Concluding Remarks by Kelly Jackson
Thank you, Karena. That was such an insightful discussion. I'm personally going to be reflecting on a number of the points that were made for quite a while. And you know, really feeling, you know, encouraged to think about, you know, how I can take some of those, those small steps and actions, and just I think being reminded that, you know, as a colleague and as a leader myself, that's—we don't have to solve all the problems, but we do have to act, and we do have to be accountable for really pushing forward these conversations about mental health, especially in the workplace. So, thank you so much to our panelists. Thank you, also, to our sponsors for your support thank you to all of you who joined us today.

As a club of record, all Empire Club of Canada events are available to watch and listen to on demand on our website. The recording of this event will be available shortly, and everybody who has registered for the event will receive an e-mail with the link.

On Monday, June 19th, join us for one of our last events of the season. It's going to be an insightful discussion with Premier Doug Ford, all about the government's ambitious plan to build Ontario and deliver the infrastructure that Ontario needs. On Tuesday, June 27th, I’d also like to invite you to join us, we have a virtual event, and it's our annual Canada Day Celebration. This year, the theme is, “Stories of the Caring and Sharing Canada.” This year is presented Canada with unparalleled challenges, requiring the nation to unite on many different items and issues. Learn more about what is being done, and what can be done to meet the enormous Canadian and global need for a compassionate Canada today. Thank you again for your participation and for your support. I wish you a great afternoon. This meeting is now adjourned.