Honouring Indigenous Veterans

November 8, 2023

The Empire Club of Canada Presents

Honouring Indigenous Veterans

Chairman: Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada

Moderator
Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada

Distinguished Guest Speakers
John Moses, Director, Repatriation and Indigenous Relations, Canadian Museum of History
Tim O'Loan, CEO & Founder, The Reconciliation Speakers

Introduction
It is a great honour for me to be here at the Empire Club of Canada today, which is arguably the most famous and historically relevant speaker’s podium to have ever existed in Canada. It has offered its podium to such international luminaries as Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan, Audrey Hepburn, the Dalai Lama, Indira Gandhi, and closer to home, from Pierre Trudeau to Justin Trudeau; literally generations of our great nation's leaders, alongside with those of the world's top international diplomats, heads of state, and business and thought leaders.

It is a real honour and distinct privilege to be invited to speak to the Empire Club of Canada, which has been welcoming international diplomats, leaders in business, and in science, and in politics. When they stand at that podium, they speak not only to the entire country, but they can speak to the entire world.

Welcome Address by Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon, and welcome to the 120th season the Empire Club of Canada. My name is Sal Rabbani. It's an honour to stand before our community as Chair of the Board of Directors of the Empire Club.

I want to acknowledge that we are gathering today on the Traditional and Treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabeg, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat Peoples. We encourage everyone to learn more about the Traditional Territory on which you work and live. November 8th is a National Day for Recognition and Remembrance of more than 200 years of military service by First Nation, Métis, and Inuit communities. Today, we come together to honour Indigenous veterans, and pay tribute to their contribution to Canada's military history.

There's so much that we don't know. So many great, unbelievable acts of bravery, integrity, courage, and dedication of Indigenous Peoples who served in the Canadian Armed Forces. Indigenous people have answered the call, each and every time; the First World War, Second World War, and the Korean War. Just in the First World War, more than 4000 Indigenous people enrolled in the military. It was a remarkable response. And in some areas, one in three able-bodied men would volunteer. Key battles in the War of 1812 were won, thanks to contributions of brave First Nation and Métis people, some are in the title of Code Talkers for delivering military intelligence in Cree, so that the enemy couldn't understand it. Thousands of Indigenous people still serve in the Canadian Armed Forces.

One of the roles at the Empire Club is to inspire learning and dialogue. As a trusted forum for conversations that matter, we provide a platform for our community to improve their expertise, reflect on important issues, and get inspired. Learning about the courage, the sacrifice, and the stories of Indigenous people serving in the military, is one of the most important contributions we can make to acknowledging their contribution. So, please engage with our esteemed speakers through the Q&A under the video player today.

The Empire Club of Canada is a not-for-profit organization, and we'd like to recognize our sponsors, who generously support the club, and make these events possible and complementary for our online viewers to attend. Thank you to our Season Sponsors, Amazon Web Services AWS, Bruce Power, and Hydro One. I also want to recognize the Empire Clubs distinguished past Presidents, Board of Directors, staff, and volunteers. Thank you for your contributions in making this event a success.

To take a closer look at Indigenous veterans' contribution, it is a great honour for the Empire Club to welcome two extraordinary individuals today, John Moses and Tim O'Loan. They're incredible fountains of knowledge on the impressive Indigenous participation in Canada's military efforts over the years. We will hear from a historical and personal perspective, as our speakers talk about the wartime service of extended family, and go beyond numbers and statistics to share touching and inspiring stories of the people to serve this country. Stories that speak about service and honour, this commitment to stay true to principles of courage, integrity, camaraderie, and putting others in front of oneself. The commitment to enlist and wear the uniform, having that moral compass, strength to endure systemic racism and discrimination during their service, and also after they return to Canada. The strength to keep on going, when their contribution was not acknowledged, when their sacrifice remained unrecognized.

Indigenous Peoples' stewardship of this land, their profound cultural heritage, and continued connection to these territories, are essential parts of our identity. So, today is an opportunity to recognize the immense contributions and diverse cultures that First Nations, Inuit, and Métis people have made to our society. To honour the progress that has been made towards Reconciliation and acknowledge that work remains to be done. Let us remember Indigenous Peoples who have served, and those who continue to serve. Let us honour them, and acknowledge their contribution. Let us reflect on their sacrifices, and their past mistreatment. Let us make today an opportunity toward Reconciliation. Let us be inspired by their courage, their commitment, and the enduring value of honour and service that they embodied so well. Lest we forget.

I'd now like to welcome our esteemed speakers, John Moses, Director, Repatriation and Indigenous Relations, Canadian Museum of History, and Tim O'Loan, CEO and Founder, The Reconciliation Speakers. Welcome. John, if I may, please take a minute to briefly introduce yourself.

John Moses, Director, Repatriation and Indigenous Relations, Canadian Museum of History
Well, good afternoon. Thank you, and [indiscernible]. I certainly do appreciate this opportunity and this platform to address the Empire Club of Canada. My name is John Moses. I'm a member of the Delaware and Upper Mohawk Bands from the Six Nations of the Grand River Territory, near Brantford, Ontario, and I am the Director of Repatriation and Indigenous Relations at the Canadian Museum of History, here in Gatineau, Québec, on the Unceded Territory of the Algonquin and the Anishinaabeg. I'm also a Canadian Forces veteran, having served during the Cold War-era as a member of the Com Research 291 Signals Trade. So, thank you very much, [indiscernible].

Sal Rabbani
Thanks, John. Tim, please let us our audience know a little bit about yourself.

Tim O'Loan, CEO & Founder, The Reconciliation Speakers
Good morning, or good afternoon—I don't even know. My name is Tim O'Loan. I'm a 10-year veteran, I'm proud to have served from 1983 to 1993. I'm humbled to share the stage with John, he's been a dear friend. And I am Dene, from the Northwest Territory. I, too, am in Ottawa on the Traditional Territory of the Unceded, Un-surrendered Territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin Nation. I'm really humbled to be here, and just humbled to be able to share space with so many amazing Canadians, and I look forward to our conversation. [indiscernible]. Thank you very much.

Sal Rabbani
Thank you. Thank you, Tim. And thank you both. It's an honour to have you both here. To start off today, John will kick off, with the presentation titled "Beyond The Restless Wave." John, the platform is yours.

John Moses
Well, thank you. [indiscernible]. Again, my name is John Moses. I'm a member of the Delaware and Upper Mohawk Bands from the Six Nations of the Grand River Territory, near Brantford, Ontario. And that's where both my parents were born and raised, and where the majority of my extended family members continue to live and work.

Now, my father was the late Russ Moses. He was a Residential School survivor, a naval veteran of the Korean War, an Air Force veteran of the Cold War, and a public servant, whose various appointments included his Deputy Commissioner General of the Indians of Canada Pavilion at Montréal's Expo '67—which venue today is recognized as being a watershed in Indigenous self-representation before national and global audiences. My mother is Helen Monture-Moses. She followed her own mother, Edith Anderson Monture into the nursing profession. And, and Helen was a founding member of the original Canadian Indian Nurses Association, back in the 1970's, for which work she received her Eagle Feather.

Now, I'm telling you all of this so that you know exactly who I am, and where I'm coming from, in all respects. And finally, again, I also want to acknowledge our Indigenous veterans and Elders, and the Traditional Unceeded Territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe, from which I'm joining you today in Gatinéau, Québec.

Now, historically, wherever the geographic, economic, and political factors so dictated, the British Crown, and other Imperial powers in North America, all sought to include Indigenous allies, as part of their overall military and strategic alliances. For their own part, Indigenous Peoples and groups either accepted, rejected, or modified these overtures, in accordance with their own objectives.

20th century overseas military service by Indigenous Peoples from Canada was contentious, and fraught with the potential for unintended outcomes, both for those on the front lines and for those at home. Quite aside from the possibility of death or injury for combatants, of course, for those at home, these unanticipated consequences also included family and marital breakdown, as parents, older siblings, and other role models and caregivers, departed for war work, or for their own military service. The co-commitment transfer of at least some of the children involved to Residential Schools, challenges to traditional political authority, and the loss of land, as portions of some reserves received—were seized for military purpose, and the forced agricultural labour of Indigenous children at Canada's Indian Residential Schools, as at least some of the schools were converted to meet civilian food production needs, during the wartime emergency. All of these outcomes were experienced by my own family members, to varying degrees.

Now, in respect of Residential Schools, many of the schools have been run along military lines to begin with, with the exceptionally austere living conditions under even normal and routine peacetime conditions being akin to military service. Many Indigenous families over the span of generations share this history of both Residential School, and later, military service. There were thus combined wartime, and multi-generational Residential School legacies, that continued to negatively impact Indigenous families and communities to the present day. This has certainly been the case in my own extended family, over the generations.

Now, notwithstanding that under Canada's colonial Indian Act legislation, they were actively denied the full rights and benefits of Canadian citizenship at home. Indigenous troops of the two World Wars were at the very forefront in fulfilling abroad, what is arguably that most onerous and profound obligation of citizenship and sovereignty, in donning uniform, and bearing arms against the nation's enemies.

It must be emphasized that in Indigenous military service was never undertaken lightly, nor out of some quaint or naive sense of patriotism to the Crown. The question of whether to support Canadian and Imperial military efforts was divisive within Indigenous communities and families across the country, and even amongst those who did volunteer for service, their political motivations vary greatly, spanning the material to the political. Some, like many settler Canadians, were attracted by the perceived material benefits and advantages of regular food, payment, clothing, and shelter. At Six Nations, at the time of the Great War, some perceived themselves historically in the vein of Joseph Brant, and His Majesty's Indian allies. Others were more future-oriented, and felt that the come the victorious peacetime that no one doubted the fact of their recent military service overseas would provide them greater leverage in advocating for Six Nations' rights on the national and world stage.

Now, I want to state that I would not presume to speak of any community other than my own—which again, is the Six Nations of the Grand River—and within that, I would not presume to speak of any families other than my own, which matrilineally are the Monture and Anderson families, and which patrilineally is the Moses family.

By utilizing poetry, letters, diaries, telegrams, and photographs, and the traditional knowledge and oral histories of the extended Moses family, and the extended Montour and Anderson families, this presentation traces the wartime service, and ultimate fate, of selected Six Nations band members, all of whom are family to me.

So, what follows is a highly personalized account of Six Nations' contributions to Allied and British Empire war efforts of the 20th century, with a unique commentary on the fortunes of war from an unfiltered, first-hand Indigenous perspective. And if we could go to the next slide, please.

Now, despite the fact that the governing Six Nations Confederacy, Hereditary Chiefs, and Clan Mothers espoused a stance of diplomatic neutrality at the outbreak of the Great War, more than 300 band members volunteered to serve. Such a response was a challenge, in itself, to the Traditional Authority of the Confederacy system. Of the more than 300 who volunteered, 292 finally shipped overseas. Of these, 38 were killed in action, reported missing, or died of wounds or illness. With losses exceeding 1 in 10, the Six Nations troops of the First World War were thus, literally, decimated.

Upon their return home following the war, some of the Six Nations veterans assumed leadership of a pre-existing reform movement called the Dehorners. The Dehorner mandate was to remove the Confederacy Chiefs and Clan Mothers from power, and to and to introduce ban council elections, consistent with the Indian Act of that era, on the basis of one male elector, one vote. The Dehorners were relatively few in number, but well organized by virtue of their military training and experience. In the hyper nationalistic and patriotic environment of post-war Canadian society, they emphasized the differences between themselves ,as newly returned war veterans ,versus the neutral stance of the Confederacy Chiefs, and its supporters. They actively colluded with the Dominion government to achieve their end, which was, in fact, accomplished in 1924. Ever since, there have been those individuals, extended families, and lineages at Six Nations, that continue to support government by Confederacy Chiefs and Clan Mothers, versus those that support Indian Acts—style Band Council elections. Others remain apolitical.

Now, notwithstanding any of the foregoing, Six Nations and Indigenous individuals and families in general were apparently prepared to support the Crown war efforts, and the notion of a strong and united Empire and Dominion, so long as that same Crown demonstrated respective Aboriginal and Treaty rights in return. Ultimately, Six Nations troops' individual service in wartime was in the context of the historic Covenant Chain Wampum Accord, meaning diplomatic partnerships in peace, and military alliance during war. My intention in offering the following family profiles is to highlight the diversity of the Six Nations' military and wartime experience during the 20th century.

So, pictured here is my maternal grandmother, Edith Anderson Monture. She was born in 1890, and passed away in 1996, a few days short of what would have been her 106th birthday. As a young woman, my grandmother Edith was determined to become a nurse. Unfortunately, Indian Act restrictions of her era prevented her from pursuing higher education without the threat of loss of her legal Indian Status, and registered band membership. Her strategy around this was to pursue her training in the United States. She was living and working as a public health nurse and a school nurse in New York City when the United States entered the Great War in 1917. Volunteering for duty with the US Army Nurse Corps of the American Expeditionary Force, she served overseas in France, at U.S. Army Base Hospital number 23, in Vittel, before returning to the US and eventually to Canada in 1919, by which time the former Indian Act restrictions were no longer enforced.

Returning to the Six Nations of the Grand River Territory, she married, raised her own family, including my mother Helen, and continued nursing and working as a midwife and nurse on the reserve, until finally retiring in the 1960's. Recognized now as the first Indigenous registered nurse in Canada, Grandmother Edith was a pioneer of Indigenous healthcare—although these same sources typically neglect to include that it was the provisions of Canada's racist Indian Act legislation of her era that obliged her to initially pursue her calling in another country. By virtue of her Allied Veteran Status, under Canada's 1917 Wartime Elections Act, and the Military Voters Act, she was also the first female Status Indian registered band member in Canada able to vote in federal elections, which rates she proudly exercised.

Her compassion is evident in the following extract from her wartime diary, which is still maintained as a treasured heirloom within our extended family today, and this is the entry for Sunday, June, the 16th of 1918: "My pet patient, Earl King, the boy who had adopted me as his big sister, died this morning at 7:15. He had a hemorrhage at 3:15 in the morning. The poor boy lost consciousness immediately. My heart is broken. I've been crying most of the day, and I cannot sleep." Tuesday, June the 18th, "After dinner, I went to the florist, and ordered flowers for my boy who had died. At 3 p.m., I went to his funeral. It was pouring rain throughout the whole ceremony, but I didn't mind. At least I paid my last respects to Earl." End of quote. Following this sad event, Edith wrote personally to the boys parents, to let them know he was not alone when he died. Following the war, they exchanged visits, with Edith travelling to Iowa, and Mr. and Mrs. King eventually visiting grandmother at Six Nations. Next slide, please.

James Moses, a great-uncle of mine. His dates are 1890 to 1918. Employed as a schoolteacher on the Six Nations reserve when the Great War began, James Moses served as an infantry officer with Canada's two largely Indigenous formations of the Great War, the114th Battalion Brock's Rangers, and the 107th Timber Wolf Battalion of the Canadian Expeditionary Force, before transferring to the Royal Flying Corps, in September of 1917. Trained as an air gunner and forward artillery observer with the Royal Flying Corps, Lieutenant Moses was reported missing, later confirmed as killed in action, while serving with Number 57 Squadron on April the 1st of 1918.

As April the 1st of 1918 marks the official birth date of the Royal Air Force, with the amalgamation that day of the former Royal Naval Air Service, and the Royal Flying Corps, one of the first battle casualties of the famed RAF was, in fact, Lieutenant Moses, a Delaware band member from the Six Nations of the Grand River Territory.

Upon receiving word of his son's fate, his father Nelson wrote the following lines in his honour in a poem entitled The Missing Airman:

Oh sometimes, yet, I feel lonely for him who went away overseas
Time's healing wing and time only can soothe the empty heart with these
That parting hour was hard to bear, when we shook hands and said goodbye
Hope alone breathed over our prayers while tears rose up and dimmed each eye.
But our mother, in sore distress, was heard from beyond the restless wave
Her sons faltered not, in her stress, it was victory or the grave
Jim sleeps with many comrades brave; sleep on, your battle is done
No lonely cross will mark the grave, where rests the Empire's warrior son

Now for full disclosure, both the father, Nelson, and his son James were active members—leaders, in fact, of the Dehorner Movement to remove the Confederacy Chiefs and Clan Mothers, and Institute Indian Act-syle Band Council election. So, too, was another son and younger brother, Arnold, whose story, whose story follows here. Next slide, please.

And Arnold is pictured in the centre of the photograph, here. Originally a family farm hand at Six Nations, Arnold Cornelius Moses, whose dates are 1898 to 1951, served successively with the 114th and 107th Battalion, CEF, like his older brother, before ending the war with the Canadian Engineers. He remained active in both the Canadian Militia and in elected Band Council politics, during the interwar years. He served as elected Band Council Chief for a two-year term, spanning 1949 to 1950. He died in 1951, in his 54th year. Published tributes following his death included the following, which is from The Native Voice, which is a former national Indigenous publication of the 1950's. This is from the edition of November 1951:

"The Indians of Canada have lost a wise and good leader in Arnold C. Moses, at Ohsweken, Ontario. Truly, he gave his life for the welfare of all Indian people. It was the stress and strain of the long legal battle between the Six Nations and federal government over to their claims to the defunct Grand River Navigation Company, and his contributions in presenting briefs thereon regarding recent amendments to the Indian Act that sapped his strength and health beyond repair. Born in 1898, Mr. Moses was a member of the Delaware Tribe. In 1915, at the age of 17, he joined the Canadian Army, going overseas with the 114th Battalion. In 1919, after three years and three months of service, he was retired from the Royal Canadian Engineers with the rank of Lieutenant." Next slide, please.

And this is my maternal great-uncle, Gib Montour. His dates were 1895 to 1973. I recall my maternal great-uncle Gib Monture simply as Uncle Gib, as he was known across our extended family. He was younger brother to Edith's husband Clayburn Monture. Edith and Clayburn were my mother's parents, and thus my maternal grandparents. I remember Uncle Gib as a gruff Elder, with a gallows sense of humor. By the time I can remember him, he was in declining health following a series of heart attacks for which, in his word, "the only outcome would be a dose of graveyard mould," end of quote. To give him his due, I will quote from one of the published accounts concerning him which appeared during his lifetime, while he was still in his prime. The following extract is from an article entitled "Canadian Metals Expert Monture Aids Malaya." And this is from The Indian News, which was the departmental newsletter of the former Indian Affairs branch, in the edition dated August 1954.

"Dr. Monture recently returned from Malaya, where he was on loan from the Canadian government to the International Bank for Reconciliation and Redevelopment. Dr. Monture served as a teacher on his reserve for some time as a youth. He enrolled in Queens University, but interrupted his studies because of the First World War, enlisting as a gunner in 1917. He later gained an officer's Commission with the Canadian Engineers. He returned to his studies after the war, and graduated in 1921, with the degrees of Bachelor of Science, majoring in Mining and Metallurgy. He had continued his military activities in the reserve forces since the First World War, so he was very disappointed at the start of his Second to find that an old injury made him unfit for military service. In 1940, his department lent him to the Department of Munitions and Supply as the Chief Executive Assistant to the Metals Controller. He was made Canadian Executive Officer of the Combined Allied Production and Resources Board in Washington, DC. His services to the board from 1943 to 1945 were of such great importance that he was awarded by being made an Officer of the Order of the British Empire. Dr. Monture's outstanding service to Canada, both in war and in peace, has won him national acclaim, and the particular pride of his own people." Next slide please.

Jesse Moses, and his dates were 1919 to 2011. A Delaware Band member from the Six Nations of the Grand River Territory and a farmer by vocation, my second cousin Jesse Moses, enlisted with the 11th Canadian Armored Regiment, the Ontario Regiment, soon after the outbreak of the Second World War. Following initial training in Canada and the United Kingdom, Trooper Moses fought with his unit throughout Sicily, Italy, and Northwest Europe, including the liberation of Belgium and Holland. His letters home to his betrothed, Olive, span July the 2nd of 1941 to September the 24th of 1945, beginning in England, and ending in Holland. Apparently, he was strictly adhering to wartime roles, Jesse's letters are nearly bereft of any technical or operational details of interest to the military historian, but this is understandable, given his recipient, and their relationship. He wanted to encourage and support Olive, during the forced separation, and not to worry her. Nevertheless, the letters and a handful of photographs do provide a snapshot of the daily round, and the thoughts and feelings of a young Indigenous servicemen from Canada in the thick of things during wartime. The following is from a letter dated January the 9th of 1944:

"Dear Olive, I bet my letters have dropped off considerably since last month. There is only one reason for that: old Jerry was seeing to it that we didn't have time to write. Right now, we are having a rest period. I could go on and tell you of stories of what we did and what we saw, but what's the use? Alls I can say is that we have seen war at its worst. Of being in tight corners, my crew has had its fill." And what he's referring there to is, actually, the involvement of his of his unit in the Battle of Ortona. Next slide please.

This is Ted Moses, my maternal grandfather, my father's father. His dates were 1900 to 1948. Three generations of the Moses family were raised at the Mohawk Indian Residential School in Brantford, Ontario. My great-grandfather Nelson Moses was there in the 1880's, my grandfather Ted was there in the 1910's, and my late father Russ was there in the 1940's. Now, Ted was a welder by trade, and at the outbreak of the Second World War, although deemed too old for service overseas, he was eagerly recruited as a corporal airframe mechanic by the Royal Canadian Air Force, repairing damaged aircraft at British Commonwealth Air Training bases across Southern Ontario. Apparently unwilling to forego the opportunity military service during wartime, and thus, achieved coveted Warrior and Veteran status. Ted served in this capacity, while his wife, my maternal grandmother, Augusta, suffered a mental collapse and was hospitalized, and while his three children—including my father Russ—were sent to the Mohawk Institute Indian Residential School for the duration of the war, and two years beyond. Ted was killed in a car accident soon after the war. Next slide, please.

My late father, Russ Moses, was born on August the 8th of 1932, and died on the 22nd of May 2013. He and his older brother, and a younger sister, Thelma, attended the Mohawk Institute under exceptionally severe wartime and post-war conditions, from 1942 to 1947. The Mohawk Institute had degenerated throughout the decade of the 1920's, in the era of the Great Depression. My father and his siblings had the misfortune of being sent there at the height of the Second World War, by which time any pretense towards providing education or vocational training to the children had been abandoned. The Indian children were there to provide the forced agricultural labour necessary to keep the large farm operation going, as a contribution to the civilian food production effort on the Canadian home front, during the war.

As my father recounts in a memoir he wrote in 1965, "The senior boys worked on the farm—and I mean, we worked hard, all the time. We were underfed, exhausted, and ill-clad, and we were out in all types of weather. There's certainly something to be said for Indian stamina. When I was asked to do this paper, I had some misgivings. But if I were to be honest, I must tell of things as they were. And really, this is not my story; it's yours." Final slide, please.

So, thank you for hearing me out, during this recounting of Six Nations oral history, and one extended family's Traditional Knowledge. If any generalizations can be made regarding the spectrum of military service described here, in each instance, I would simply say it was ultimately within the spirit and intent of the original Covenant Chain Wampum Belt between the Six Nations Confederacy of Iroquois, and Allied Indian Nations, and the British Crown, thus signifying trading and economic relations during peacetime, and military alliance during war. So, thank you for your time, and [indiscernible]. I appreciate the platform very much. Thank you.

Sal Rabbani
Thanks, John, for sharing your personal history and story with our audience. We're going to circle back at the end for some Q&A, to delve into some of those themes. Now we'll hear from Tim O'Loan. Tim, the floor is yours.

Tim O'Loan
Thank you so much. And I just want to take a moment, John, to thank you for your service, your friendship, and, and to thank your father and his impact on the legacy in this country of Residential Schools. I worked at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission as the Advisor to the Chair, and I want to acknowledge the, the Mohawk Institute. I'm aware that it was one of the worst Residential Schools—sadly, there was a spectrum within Canada—and the legacy of the Mohawk Institute and it's trauma, not only to your family, but to other families, as well.

You know, I do not have anything to read. I make notes. And part of my own personal journey is, really, to find my authentic voice. Someone that was raised to believe I was offside; it took me a long time to realize that I have a voice. And that's the one that I use now, and I'll share that with you. You know, one of the things that I also acknowledge is this is an emotional week, not only for Indigenous veterans, but for all veterans. And I'm, you know, I'm just kind of feeling that. And so, I may stutter just a bit, and—but like I said, it is my authentic voice.

I want to explain just one thing, 'cause sometimes people ask the question, "Why November 8th? Why do you not—Indigenous veterans celebrate on November 11th?" Well, first of all, we did. But the journey of this country is one, for Indigenous Peoples, one of exclusion. And so, Indigenous veterans quietly celebrated November 8th. It started in Manitoba. And just because of the exclusionary nature for Indigenous Peoples and Indigenous veterans, we saw it as our sacred day. It has since grown to the national stage, but it was not because we split away on this week; it was because we were excluded from, from the national kind of stage on November 11th. We still participate—I'm actually missing a ceremony from downtown Ottawa right now—but I will certainly, every November 11th, and this Saturday, I will be laying a wreath, on behalf of First Nation Veterans, along with the National Chief.

I had mentioned before, I was the Advisor to the Chair of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. My, it has changed my life, both good, bad, and ugly—I fell to severe PTSD as a result of my journey, and just listening to some pretty horrific stories. But I was very grateful for Veterans Affairs, and their immense amount of support that it has for veterans. It was embarrassing for the Crown, and I—John and I referenced, it's not Government of Canada; it is the highest level, which is the Crown—it was , you know, and the Crown did not respond to veterans' needs, especially since the 1990's, and into the 2000's. And it really had to get ahead of the curve just to save the lives of many veterans that have fallen into PTSD as a result of their service. I was very grateful for the supports, but as part of my journey, I also realized that the supports—that the Crown had traumatized, you know, the Indigenous populations. And so, for me, that's something that I'm not really comfortable with. I was very grateful for the supports. But I acknowledge, and we can see that, you know, many Indigenous Peoples, as a result of Residential Schools and other policies, find themselves on the streets. And for me, that doesn't really sit comfortably, and I'm going to continue to do some work to make sure—because there is a model from Veterans Affairs—to make sure that there's some amazing supports for those that continue their journey of trauma, un-processed trauma, especially with the Indigenous population.

So, I kind of want to acknowledge. One of the things that I do talk about is that I do feel that this country needs just a bit more empathy, you know. For those of us that are in a privileged state, I now—like I said, when I see someone on the street, I now realize that's un-processed trauma. On the Indigenous population that is on the street, I realize that's un-processed trauma. And I will do everything that I can in moving forward, to ensure that we have the supports. Like I said, I do believe that this country just kind of needs to create a bit more space filled with empathy for those that may be struggling.

One of the things—I was taking notes as John was sharing. And you know, World War Two—World War One gave women the vote in Canada. World War Two, because Canada went off, or the Crown went off and fought, you know, this Nazi Regime—and appropriately so, with its allies, defeated this Nazi Regime, based on racial superiority. Canada, or the Crown, when it came back and realized, hmm, a treatment of Indigenous population, maybe it was based on racial superiority. So, that's really laid the foundation for the 1950 Indian Act amendments that made it okay, or not illegal, to practice our language, our culture, celebrations such as Powwows and Potlatch's on the West Coast, and just kind of laid the foundation for the eventual vote in 1960 for "Treaty Indians."

And so, that was the positive nature. But one of the things, when I heard the story of after World War Two, of course people came back and, you know, the Legion provided supports for, for veterans. You know, and it happened to be an establishment that served alcohol, as well. At that time, Indigenous Peoples were not allowed to establishments that served alcohol. So, one of the sad legacies is that, you know, the Indigenous population has served along with their non-Indigenous friends, and brothers-in-arms, were not allowed in. And one of the things about the Legion was, that's where a lot of medals were given to these heroes. And sadly, they would do that, in ceremony, and then would have to go into the back, the back parking lot where the Treaty Indians were, and give them their medals, kind of out of the back, you know, through the kitchen, kind of back doorway. And that was really something that, that, you know, that's just a bit of our sad legacy.

You know, one of the things—and I think about this, and I want to honour the incredible hero named Tommy Prince. And he served in my regiment PPCLI, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. When I joined and got into the, to the regiment, there were still stories of his heroism. I often realize, because there's a term in the military called a 10-year, 10-year Sergeant, and that takes 10 years to get for someone to get the expertise. And I realized a lot of Indigenous Peoples that were born and raised on in the bush had that 10-years' experience of hunting and trapping, stalking, you know, animals, that was easily transferred to the military. And so, often, these heroes would have that 10-years of experience. And that kind of, in many ways, made them much more advanced in their military skills than those that were joining. So, it was—that took me a while to place that.

You know, one of the things that, you know, I just kind of want to honour is that, you know, Tommy Prince, sadly—and I think it was because of mental health—there were no supports for someone like him. For the Indigenous population that had Treaty, often would lose their Treaty as a result of their military status, were not allowed to go back home to their home reserves. And because there was very limited supports for them, would often end up finding on the streets. And I'm really sorry to share with you that Tommy Prince died on the streets, in Winnipeg, after his military service. His unhealthy relationship with alcohol—I since realized, I cannot judge anyone that may have, because someone with mental health may turn to the bottle or drugs, just to tap down their trauma. I also realized—because that was a bit of my journey—that there is something called healthy self-care. And of course, that's the 20-second hugs, walks, praying to your God—whoever he or she is; literally, going for a walk—dogs love 20-second hugs. And so, I really encourage people, if they consider that's part of their journey, I will be definitely going for a walk after this. Because like I said, it's—I will need this whole week to do a lot of self-care.

You know, one of the sad legacies also is, you know, for those that are a bit older, in 1990, a sad chapter—and this is, has impacted John's home community, as well—was the sad legacy around the Oka Crisis. I was in service in the military, in which the Prime Minister of the day called out the military, during the Oka Crisis. And for an Indigenous person that was serving at the time—you see, when you're in the infantry, you are trained to believe the other person on the other side of your weapon is the enemy. And for the Indigenous population that was in service—I was interviewed because my unit was one of the next units to go. And for me, it was, it was a very difficult time in my life. Because I could not imagine if I was called out, to have to go and point my weapon against my own people. I know that there are people that was supposed—those Indigenous soldiers were supposed to go out. And of course they would, you know, they would, you know, supposed to show up the next morning for parade. And you know, just to have those soldiers no longer there, because of course they could never take arms up against their own people. And it was just a sort of sad part of our Canadian history. I lived it, and it was the seed that really kind of allowed me to start thinking about the institution as wasn't the institution that I joined.

One of the things that, as part of my journey, when I fell to mental health in 2015, '16, and '17, I was in the Valley of Darkness, I was very grateful for the supports Veterans Affairs gave me. And as part of my journey, I applied for the Invictus Games in 2018. I was selected as part of—this is Prince Harry's legacy—very pleased to have been taken, as part of Team Canada. Went to Sydney, Australia. And it was a big part of me coming out of the Valley of Darkness, because I once again had a mission. I also had to eat crow, because I sat with a lot of heroes, and really kind, loving human beings. All of us either had a physical and/or a mental injury. So, in some way we were, I was comforted by the fact that we all had very similar experiences. And that was the Sacredness of the Circle of, for the Invictus Games.

You know, I am also really pleased to have supported True Patriot Love Foundation in their bid for the 2025 Olympic Games in Vancouver. And they had just received the, you know, the announcement that Vancouver is going, is now host, with the Four First Nations, the Four Nations in and around Vancouver. And I'm going to be applying, and I hope that I get selected again, because I would love to participate again. It was healthy for me. And I also realized the healthiness of sports. But we will keep our fingers crossed. If I don't get selected, I would definitely be going out to Vancouver to volunteer, and just kind of sit with my own. And you know, my journey is—I've walked my journey with heroes. Not only with survivors, including my mom, and my grandfather, but in witnessing amazing stories of resilience for not only survivors of Residential Schools, but also with veterans, and folks like John. I, I'm very comforted by the fact that—and I do want to say thank you for giving me space to be able to share a bit of my story. For giving me space to—and a safe space for me to, to share my authentic voice.

You know, one of the things that I realized is, in 2018, after the Invictus Games, I had applied to go to a Indigenous Healing Camp, because I needed my culture to heal. I was denied. They said, "We can only send you to a mental health facility that's supervised by a psychiatrist or a psychologist." And I said, "Okay." It had limited success. But I thought Veterans Affairs needs to do better. Indigenous Peoples need our culture to heal. So, I've been advocating since then, that not another Indigenous veteran will be sent to a non-Indigenous facility. That we would need to do better in allowing Indigenous Peoples to go to a place like a Healing Camp, so that we can sit in our culture and heal. And so, we're not out of the woods yet. We need to do more. Veterans Affairs needs to do more on the Indigenous side. But I certainly hope that we can continue to improve.

One of the messages that I do share with people is that, you know, I do think Canada needs to provide just a more, a bit more empathy, not only for those that are struggling on the Indigenous side. Because it was the Crown that wounded us, it is the Crown that needs to provide supports, in allowing us to heal, surrounded by our own culture, I do want to say, [indiscernible]. I will be doing self-care. I do encourage—because the reality is, in a room of 100 people, there is un-processed trauma—and I do want to encourage people to consider healthy self-care, as they move forward. And that is things like a 20-second hug with someone that they love, go walking a dog, things like that, versus unhealthy self-care. And it really does pay, pay things forward. [indiscernible], I want to say thank you, John. Thank you for your service, and your friendship, thank you to your family's commitment to the Crown—it goes back so long—-and just humbled to share the Circle with you, and the amazing people at the Empire Club of Canada. And I want to say, [indiscernible], and I know there's times for questions. And I want to say thank you so much, and I am humbled to be here.

QUESTION & ANSWER

Sal Rabbani
Thank you. Thank you, Tim. As we bring John back into the conversation, I wanted to ask you, you know, how is the military different today, than when you served from 1983 to 1993?

Tim O'Loan
Well, I did have to eat crow. I did have to humble myself. When I was selected for the Invictus Games. I, part of me, I was just gonna do it on my own. It was a, there was a lot of racism in the military during that time, and I really wanted to demonize everyone on that team because of their service. Because I really struggled. I do acknowledge that I sat in a Circle with some amazing human beings. And I acknowledge that it is a different military now, than it was the military left in 1993. And I'm humbled that I met some amazing people, and I still continue my friendship with them. So, it is more reflective of the population that it serves now, than it was back then. And so, that was a big thing for me, and when I served on the, when I was on the Invictus team.

Sal Rabbani
Thanks. John, you know, Tim mentioned the differences in military from 1980 and now. And if we step back in time, what would motivate Indigenous persons to serve, during the era of the two World Wars, Korean, especially considering their political and economic circumstances at home.

John Moses
Well, like I said, I think the individual motivations varied greatly, spanning the personal or the material to the, to the political. And perhaps like a, you know, a great proportion of the Canadian population at large, during those time periods of the 19-teens, and then again during the 1940's, people in—on an individual level, people were motivated by the perceived material benefits of, you know, food, and clothing, and shelter, and all the rest of it; regular payment. But individually, amongst the Six Nations, and amongst Indigenous Peoples in general, the decision whether or not to serve, it was never undertaken lightly, and it was hugely divisive. And even within individual communities, you found a broad range of responses—again, ranging from the material to the political—and certainly, for the Six Nations, a lot of them, you know, were anticipating a victorious peacetime during the First World War that would, one that would come sooner rather than later. So, they shared that view with many Canadians at large. And the thinking was, that was the, you know, the come back in victorious peacetime, the fact of their recent military service overseas could be leveraged politically to help continue to advocate for the cause of Indigenous and Six Nations' rights, come peacetime. So, I think that was some of what was at play, at Six Nations, anyways.

Sal Rabbani
Thanks, John. You know, you know, and Tim, thinking about what John just mentioned regarding motivation to serve, can you expand on what motivated you, and what was the biggest impact your military service had on you today?

Tim O'Loan
Yeah, no problem. And I will just add to John's point in, especially because I come from the Numbered Treaty in the Northwest Territories ,Treaty 8, and Treaty 11—but certainly, the Numbered Treaties in Western Canada. Many joined because we had Treaties with the Crown, and that was a major influence on people joining. And if you asked many of them, they'd be like, "Because we have Treaties." Especially in Saskatchewan—there was one community in which every able-bodied male joined the military. And a strong number of that is just simply because we have Treaties with the Crown, and that was just the Indigenous fulfillment of that.

For me, I was a young child, I was raised in not very good circumstances—a portion of that because my brother went off and joined. And I, it was, part of me wanted to get away from a tough situation at home. In some parts, because of the racism, I jumped from the pot into the fire. But I'm, for me and part of my healing journey, I'm kind of trying to displace the negativity that was perpetrated upon me, and just to think and honour, now that I look back, the amazing friends that I served with. I think of people that, for me this week, I think of some of the heroes that are no longer with me. And I think of, you know, a friend of mine, Jim Decoste, who sadly passed on September 20th, 1993. He was a hero of mine. And it's people like that I think about, the heroes that I served with. So, it was a difficult childhood, and part of me was just trying to get away from that, and joining the military got me out of the house. I saw the world, I was posted over to Europe, and I did training with the French Foreign Legion, and, and other amazing training opportunities. And I do have to acknowledge, who I am today is in a big part because I'm in military service. So, I'm trying to look at things in a healthy way, and I think of Jim often.

Sal Rabbani
Thanks for sharing. John, you know, heard that in the case of Canadian Indians subject to the Indian Act, they actually had to renounce their Legal Indian Status and Band membership to enlist. Is that correct, and can you speak a bit more about this?

John Moses
Yes. Apparently, that did happen in some situations. And what we have to recall, both at the time of the First World War and the time of the Second World War, military recruiters, individual recruiting officers, and NCO's, had a tremendous amount of latitude in interpreting the enlistment regulations, as they understood them to be. And apparently, in some areas of the country during both the First World War and the Second World War, some Status Indian registered Band members were told by their military recruiters that, come the peacetime—and again, come the victorious peacetime that nobody doubted—veterans' benefits can only be made payable to Canadian citizens. And to the extent that, neither in the First World War nor in the Second World War, were Canadian Indians considered to be full Canadian citizens—they were essentially legal wards of the Crown. So, having been provided that information, in some areas, in some cases, indeed, the individual Indigenous enlistee undertook to renounce their Legal Indian Status and Band membership.

But that didn't all the time, everywhere. Like, at Six Nations, that was never the case at the Six Nations of the Grand River. And you know, again, there was a movement afoot to recruit an entire Six Nations regiment. They never actually quite achieved that. But one of Canada's two largely Indigenous formations of the Great War, of the First World War, was the 114th Battalion Brock's Rangers that was raised in and around the Six Nations reserve, and then the 107th Battalion, that was raised in and around Winnipeg, Manitoba. In those situations, the individual soldiers were never called upon to surrender their Band membership. So, the only thing I can say was that that was not—if it occurred elsewhere, it was not the case with the Six Nations troops during the First World War. Thanks.

Sal Rabbani
Thanks for sharing that. We've got questions also coming in from the audience. And so, I want to balance a little bit, and so I'll just move there. Here's a question: how do you envisage the future of healing PTSD and intergenerational trauma for our Indigenous veterans?

Tim O'Loan
That is not an easy question to answer. You know, one of the things—and it's a bit of my journey, as well, a bit of journey of shame, is people, sometimes people have tried to rid themselves of their Indigeneity. And so, in many respects, some people are on their own learning journey about their own culture. Some people are trying to learn their language, and learn the, you know, what is safe for them within, to heal. And I'm part of that culture, as well. My, my language was taken from my mom, and she never passed it on to me. She was only 14 when she had me. But all that to say is, I know there's a foundation, if someone chooses to be able to heal, surrounded in their culture. And I think Veterans Affairs needs to do much better about that—but if that's if they so choose. If someone is comfortable with going off to mental health facilities like Bellwood in Toronto, that's okay, too. But for me, I, it was not an option. I wanted it, and I wanted to make sure that that would never happen again with any future, someone that may be dealing with their mental health, to be able to be surrounded in their culture.

Sal Rabbani
Thanks, Tim. We're, we're nearing the top of the hour, and almost close to time, so I wanted to ask one last question—and first and foremost, I thank you both very much, for sharing your personal stories, and knowledge here with us today. But before we end, I'd like to hear from both of you. As this is Remembrance week, who are you thinking of and remembering? Tim?

Tim O'Loan
I walked the journey with many heroes. And I think of Jim Decoste—if people want to Google his name—and so many others, as well. So, I generally try to put my love out to the universe, and think in honour of them. But I also know that there's so many that are—that I don't know, that are struggling with her mental health, maybe in the basement. And I just hope that this country offers just a bit more empathy for those that are, have a silent wound. And so, I think about all of those. But on Remembrance Day, I try to look into the faces that are those are marching, and just to give them a moment of dignity, and I try to thank as many as possible. So, that's what I do. Thank you. Thank you for that question.

Sal Rabbani
John?

John Moses
And yeah, I think in my own case it all, you know, it always circles back to my father, Russ. He, notwithstanding the tragic circumstances of his Residential School upbringing, my father refused to be defined by his Residential School experience. He never, he, he never hid it, but neither did he dwell upon it, beyond the circumstances of his childhood. He was a decorated Naval veteran of the Korean War, an Air Force veteran of the of the Second World War, and, as I say, you know, an accomplished public servant. But most important, he was an, he was a loving and caring family man, and a friend to so many. And yeah, you know, I knew him, personally, he's the man that raised me. And he, you know, I'll just leave it there. He refused to be defined by his Residential School experience. That was sort of an episode of his life, almost—that was how to say it, like, in brackets. He, he would want to be remembered as a proud Naval veteran, and that's how I choose to remember him, too. Thank you.

Note of Appreciation and Concluding Remarks by Sal Rabbani
Thank you. Thanks for sharing. Both, we appreciate your time, Tim O'Loan and John Moses, thank you. As a club of record, all Empire Club of Canada events are available to watch and listen to on demand on our website. A recording of this event will be available shortly, and everyone registered will receive an e-mail with the link.

On Thursday, November the 23rd, join us in person to celebrate the Empire Club's 120th anniversary, a tribute to the club's history, which began in 1903. You'll hear some of the magic moments in the thousands of speeches delivered at the club over the past 12 decades, and some of the iconic stories behind these moments. On Thursday, November the 30th, join us in person to hear from Federal Labour Minister Seamus O'Reagan Jr., for an economic update on the state of labour relations in Canada. Thank you for joining us today. I wish you all the best today. This meeting is now adjourned.