Ontario Chamber of Commerce - 2024 Ontario Economic Report Launch

February 7, 2024

The Empire Club of Canada Presents

Ontario Chamber of Commerce: 2024 Ontario Economic Report Launch

Chairman: Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada

Head Table Guests
[Information Coming Soon]

Moderator
Amber Kanwar, Reporter & Anchor, BNN Bloomberg

Distinguished Guest Speakers
Martin Imbleau, CEO of VIA High Frequency Rail
The Honourable Caroline Mulroney, President of the Treasury Board, Minister of Francophone Affairs, Province of Ontario
David Lebeter, President & CEO, Hydro One
Douglas Porter, Chief Economist & Managing Director, Economics, BMO
Daniel Tisch, President & CEO, Ontario Chamber of Commerce
Dan Safayeni, Vice-President, Policy, Ontario Chamber of Commerce, Board Director, Empire Club of Canada

Introduction
It is a great honour for me to be here at the Empire Club of Canada today, which is arguably the most famous and historically relevant speaker’s podium to have ever existed in Canada. It has offered its podium to such international luminaries as Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan, Audrey Hepburn, the Dalai Lama, Indira Gandhi, and closer to home, from Pierre Trudeau to Justin Trudeau; literally generations of our great nation's leaders, alongside with those of the world's top international diplomats, heads of state, and business and thought leaders.

It is a real honour and distinct privilege to be invited to speak to the Empire Club of Canada, which has been welcoming international diplomats, leaders in business, and in science, and in politics. When they stand at that podium, they speak not only to the entire country, but they can speak to the entire world.

Welcome Address by Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon. And welcome to the Empire Club of Canada. My name is Sal Rabbani, and it's an honour to stand before our community, both in person and virtually, as Chair of the Board of Directors of the Empire Club.

To formally begin this afternoon, I want to acknowledge that we are gathering today on the traditional and treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit and the homelands of the Anishinaabeg, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat Peoples. We encourage everyone to learn more about the Traditional Territory on which you work and live.

It's an honour for the Empire Club to join forces with the Ontario Chamber of Commerce to launch their flagship 2024 Ontario Economic Report, a trusted, reliable barometer for business sentiment in our province. We have an important conversation ahead of us today, and a full house, so I'll try to be brief.

Thank you to our distinguished guests joining us: the Honourable Caroline Mulroney, Ontario's President of the Treasury Board and Minister of Francophone Affairs, the Government of Ontario; David Lebeter, President and CEO of Hydro One; Douglas Porter, Chief Economist and Managing Director Economics at Bank of Montreal.

It's also an honour to welcome on the Empire Club stage the Ontario Chamber of Commerce's new President and CEO, Daniel Tisch, in one of his first public appearances. Welcome, Daniel. And a huge thank you to Amber Kanwar, anchor at BNN Bloomberg, who will moderate today's conversation. Thanks for being here.

Ontario is facing headwinds. Last year, business confidence hit a record low in Ontario, with only 16 percent of organizations expressing confidence in the outlook of Ontario's economy—I believe that's down from 2022. Our esteemed panellists will help answer the key question that's on all of our minds right now in the business community. That is: is growth in the cards for 2024? Will labour shortages, inflation, and high interest rates continue to dampen Ontario's economic outlook?

In all my conversations with business owners—and I speak to many—I hear a lot of uncertainty regarding the economy this year. Inflation, high interest rates, and slowing demand are some of the main areas of concern. Business owners are bracing for a slower economy, and some are even postponing investments and growth plans.

I'm also curious to learn what this report tells us about labour shortages. Last year was a big issue. And anecdotally, what I'm hearing is that it's still a persistent challenge. We all know it, and it's worth repeating. We've got an incredibly resilient and innovative business community in this province; somehow, we always find a way. But this business community also needs all the help, and all the context, and information it can get. Any sneak peek around the corner can help drive decisions, investments, and business plans.

I'm also hearing more about something that I believe we don't talk about enough: mental health. Long hours, plus the complexity of doing business nowadays, are indeed taking a toll, especially among some younger business owners and professionals, as well as folks from diverse backgrounds. I understand the chamber's report includes some data and analysis on mental health, and also on some other big challenges: Reconciliation, climate change, energy supply chains—all very important topics for businesses of all sizes and at all stages of development in this province.

Before moving forward, I would like to remind everyone that the Empire Club is a not-for-profit organization, and .we'd like to recognize our sponsors, who generously support the club, and make these events possible and complimentary for our online viewers to attend. Thank you to our Lead Event Sponsors, VIA High Frequency Rail (HFR TGF). Thank you. Thank you to our VIP Reception Sponsor, Waste Connections of Canada, and thank you to our Supporting Sponsor, Sussex. Lastly, thank you to our Season Sponsors: Amazon Web Services AWS, Bruce Power, and Hydro One.

I'd now like to take this opportunity to invite Martin Imbleau, CEO of VIA High Frequency Rail, for the welcoming remarks. Martin, welcome.

Opening Remarks by Martin Imbleau, CEO of VIA High Frequency Rail
Thank you, Sal, for the kind introduction. What a room for a newbie like me. That's impressive. [Remarks in French] I'm so glad to be here to hear Daniel present the 2024 Ontario Economic Report, and also to introduce him, because I met him recently. He's just a fantastic leader, so I'll have a chance to introduce him later on. Just before I do, allow me just a few minutes. Too often, we work on intuition in business. Well, that's wrong. We need solid data. And for leaders, for civil servants, or for anyone, we need good economic data, and that's what the 2024 report is all about. And for me, as the new CEO of a new Crown Corporation to develop a high-speed, high-frequent, and reliable system between Québec and Toronto, those are fundamental data. Because we don't know what we don't know, you know? This project is Canada's public infrastructure project, the largest public infrastructure project since the St. Lawrence Seaway. It will transform Québec and Ontario economy. It's a thousand kilometres—think about it—it's a thousand kilometres between Québec and Toronto, linking 60 percent of the population, 40 percent of the GDP, three capitals, and two economic metropolises. That is the job I'm here to talk about, and you'll hear more about this in the coming weeks and months. Not only will the system be fast, reliable, and frequent, it will be electric. It is about time that we switch from diesel to electric service for our generation, and generations to come. And having passenger rail on dedicated tracks for passengers is just the right way to go.

I had a chance to talk to the Ontario business community in the past about the supply chain crisis. Some of my colleagues are in the room. And I said, "Freight trains need to be more efficient, so it costs less for the economy and for everyone." Well, I'm keeping my words. Freight trains need their dedicated tracks, but passenger rail also needs their dedicated tracks, because the economy is supported by the movement of goods, but also by the movement of passengers. And by having that type of services that we'll be developing in the next 10 years—and by the way, we will need all types of services. We need steel, we need [indiscernible], and please, we do need talents. If you know someone that is interested, Québec, Toronto, Montréal, engineer, environmentalist, good talents, I'm a taker. But if you think about the housing affordability issue, well, this service will bring three things. First, it reduces transportation costs for students, for elders, and for a lot of people, and it expands housing options along the corridor. And also, it fosters economic development for many more communities than the service that we have today. So, the project is already underway. We are actually into an RFP process right now. We have three very competent teams in the selection process. So, bear with us; we'll be back next fall to announce who our private partner will be to develop that project, because we cannot do it alone. We need the public sector and the private sector to ensure that we develop correctly. And also, we need to ensure that we follow the best management structure there is out there. Because how we do this is as important of what we do. Too often, we go too fast in infrastructure projects. We need to take the time, the right sequence, to ensure that we spend taxpayers' money in the right way.

Recently—I'm looking at Daniel—the Ontario Chamber adopted a new set of core values that include being entrepreneurial. Well, I've done business development for 30 years. I've mainly done energy development in my life. It's about time that Canada built something big and strong in different provinces for different communities, and that is the type of service that we're talking about.

So, without further ado, allow me. It's my pleasure to introduce the new President and CEO of the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, Daniel Tisch. Daniel is actually recognized as an expert in communication. His reputation precedes him, in different provinces, and in the US. He's a superb public policy advocate, and also passionate about public engagement. Some of you know it, but Daniel has led Argyle for 20 years. Argyle is one of the top communication firms in the country, and very influential in the US as well. So, congratulations for that. And what I like also, is that he's very generous with his time, because he's still involved in the Smith School of Business at Queen's, and he's done it for the last 25 years. So, thanks for your involvement. And today actually marks his first official remarks. So, join me in congratulating—Daniel, the floor is yours.

Daniel Tisch, President & CEO, Ontario Chamber of Commerce
Well, thank you, ladies, and gentlemen, and thank you so much, Martin, for your introduction—and actually, Martin, for so much. Mérci. I mean, what an exciting vision to build high-frequency rail between Québec City and Toronto. And I have to say, I know it's on the minds of many people here from Southwestern Ontario. We know and we hope that it will go all the way to Windsor in due course. So, let's make that our shared objective.

And, you know, in my very short time in this role so far, I have to say I'm already just so impressed with the vision shared by so many of our Chamber's members and partners. So, that includes, of course, our co-host today. Sal, thank you so much, the Empire Club of Canada. It includes Hydro One—I had a chance to meet with David Lebeter yesterday, for the first time. Actually, we saw each other freezing cold last week when the Minister of Energy was making that great announcement in Pickering. But thank you, David, for your support. Sussex Strategies, Waste Connections of Canada, incredible partners. And then, of course, those who helped make the Ontario Economic Report possible. That includes Bruce Power, it includes BMO, it includes Hydro One, it includes Golfdale Consulting. So, I'd love a hand for our sponsors. And, of course, no great achievement is an individual achievement. There's always a team. And I particularly want to thank my colleagues, particularly my colleagues on our policy and public affairs teams, for their exceptional work on this event.

And so, it's exciting when we hear these sorts of positive visions for the future, like the one you just heard from Martin, amidst these often-gloomy reports of the present. And if you only look at the headlines, you know, from the release of today's report, you may see the Ontario Economic Report as another one of these somewhat gloomy reports. Now, I hope to disabuse you a little bit of that, right? Or at the very least, to offer just a little bit of balance between the stark honesty that is required of this moment, and the hope that we need to navigate towards a better future. Because too often, what happens, I find, is that the demands of the present and the demands of the future, they come into conflict. And that's a real risk. That's a real challenge.

This was apparent to me at one of my first chamber events, before even becoming CEO. I went last November to our Smart Growth Symposium, an incredible, you know, day of dialogue among leaders building the smart economy. And we were about to begin a panel that was all about smart buildings, and we had owners of smart buildings on the panel. All of a sudden, a group of people stormed the stage, okay? And they're brandishing a huge banner protesting rent increases in one of those buildings. And so, for a moment, the room was paralyzed. And taking it up a level, two of our greatest public policy imperatives, affordability and sustainability, were all of a sudden in conflict: the affordability we need today, and the sustainability we need tomorrow. So, we had a few tense minutes, there was some heated whispering and negotiations, various urges to drag them off the stage, you know, and other things—which would not have been terribly helpful—you know, but the organizers were incredibly adept in negotiating a fair solution. The solution was that the protesters could address the room for a few minutes, and then they would agree to allow the meeting to continue. So, every voice on that day was heard, right? And that's really important. And that story is on my mind today, as we launch our Ontario Economic Report. Because it's a report that highlights many tensions, as businesses in Ontario and across the country, around the world, navigate a difficult present and an uncertain future. And because this moment is kind of like that one—not that I expect protesters to storm this stage today. But it is a moment where we need to stop for a moment what we're doing, and we need to listen. We need to listen to the voices of businesses, not just in the big cities, but in small, and rural, and remote, and Indigenous communities all across Ontario. And those are the voices that we hope to amplify in the Ontario Economic Report.

So, by necessity, a survey of business confidence involves looking at the present, where we are now, and how we got here. And so, our findings, if you look at the report—and I hope you've had a chance to download it already—there are three chapters. First, there's our business confidence survey, second, there's an analysis of Ontario's economic outlook, which our panel will be speaking about very shortly, and finally, chapter three, is a high-level set of recommendations from the Ontario Chamber of Commerce.

So, let's talk about business confidence. We asked businesses about the economy. And I'll be honest, we heard a lot of pessimism. But we also heard a few reasons for hope. So, let's get the bad news out of the way first. Only 13 percent of businesses are confident in Ontario's economic outlook. That's the lowest level of business confidence that we've seen in the 12 years that the Chamber has been doing this report. And just to put this in perspective for you, even at the height of the pandemic two years ago, business confidence, as measured by our survey, was 29 percent. Now, it's 13. Now, where is that pessimism the worst? Well, it's among small business, the bedrock of our economy, right? Medium-sized businesses, 21 percent, large businesses, 22 percent—not great, but a little better. And I think the challenge is, as well, that it's not consistent; it varies a lot by sector. So, the most confident sector is mining. Northern Ontario is the most confident region—which is really, really interesting—followed by utilities. I was thinking of the meeting you and I had, David, you know, when I thought about that, you know, when I saw that finding. The least confident is agriculture, followed by non-profits and healthcare, the two sectors that are on the front lines of serving people most in need and people most at risk.

So, what worries Ontario businesses and organizations that answered the survey the most? Well, this last year, it was labour shortages. And I guess the small bit of good news is that they're reporting less concern now about labour shortages. But it's an incredibly complex story of uncertainty and instability. And this isn't just local, of course; we know it's global, and it's driven by, and it is driving the pressures that are the rising cost of living ,and the rising cost of operating a business.

And while you and I may have moved on from the pandemic, and put it behind us in our minds, a lot of small businesses can't, right? Many still bear heavy debt burdens, and many others are shutting their doors. But here's the paradox: despite their gloomy outlook on the overall economy, almost half of Ontario businesses surveyed are still confident in their own business outlook, their own internal outlook. They believe that they will succeed, notwithstanding the gloominess they feel about the economy. And the majority of them, when asked, the majority, they expect growth in 2024. So, yes, this reflects a strong labour market, it represents, obviously, population growth, and immigration ,and many other good things. But it also reminds us of what Sal talked about, right? And that is the resilience of the business community. The resilience, the work ethic, and the self-reliance. And maybe our challenge is to kind of ensure that they don't have to feel that they have to rely only on themselves, right? And that's where policy, and advocacy, and shared partnership come in, and it's something that we can aspire to do together.

As for the economic outlook—our panel is going to talk about this a lot, so I won't scoop that too much, you know—but one issue stands out above all others: while Ontario's population, and its employment, and its aggregate output are growing, real GDP per capita, the essential measure of productivity, it's fallen below pre-pandemic levels. And productivity, of course, as we know, it doesn't just drive our economic competitiveness; it also contributes mightily to our quality of life. And yet, Ontario and Canada have fallen behind other advanced economies, and we have to be frank about that. As Ontario businesses contend with contracting consumer demand, and affordability challenges, and high debt burdens, right? We worry, as a chamber, that they're going to be less able to invest in R&D, in innovation, in capital and technology. They're going to be less able—and they are, according to the report, they are slowing down their investments and their strategies around diversity, inclusion, and Indigenous Reconciliation. And yet, these aren't just social imperatives; these are economic imperatives for Ontario, for Canada, right now. And without these investments, the risk is, we enter a vicious cycle of declining productivity.

So, I don't know if you expected some light entertainment after lunch—and folks, I am really sorry if I'm bringing you down. I do not want to bring you down. I don't want to cause indigestion after such a tasty lunch. So, let's think about what's already happening, and what more we can do to restore both prosperity and confidence. I've always believed that data should drive decisions. But you know, what? In my communications career, I always found that it's actually not data, but rather stories that change behaviour. And behind every response to our survey, there's a story of a business. Most of them are small, many of them have struggled in recent years. They look at the world around them and they see risk, they see economic uncertainty, political polarization, social upheaval, technological disruption, and the existential threat and risk of climate change. But despite all this, despite all this, as I said a moment ago, they're still confident in themselves. They still think, "I can grow, and I will grow." So, in some ways, our collective challenge as citizens, as leaders, as people involved in public policy discourses like the Empire Club holds, and as government, the opportunity and the imperatives to give them the support, and the incentives to act on that belief, to invest in that belief.

So, what does that mean? Well, we recommend four big policy areas, you know, in our, as you'll see in our report. The first is a skilled and inclusive workforce. And there are a lot of recommendations that we can unpack under that. But I do want to stress that upskilling has to include women, Indigenous communities, newcomers like my family 50 years ago, racialized people, people with disabilities. Ontario can only win when we get all of our talent off the bench, and into the game. It means, secondly, a smart and sustainable infrastructure. We need to modernize transportation, and energy, and housing, at a scale never seen before. And I see a will to do that in government right now. It means a more competitive business environment, simplified taxes. What if we took an outcome-based approach to regulations? What if we, what if Ontario were a leader in dismantling barriers to interprovincial trade and labour mobility? And finally, it means healthy communities, you know? And this, there are different layers to this, too. Improving health system data integration, closing capacity gaps in health human resources, and healthy communities, also require healthy municipalities. I was really pleased, and I know my friend Giles Gerson from the Toronto Region Board of Trade, who's here today, you know, was also pleased in the recent collaboration we saw between the premier and the mayor. And this needs to go further in our view, right? Municipalities need access to new revenue sources that grow as they grow, as the engines of today's economy.

Okay, so back to that big elephant in the room, declining productivity, right? Which is really hard to talk about. It's kind of like a national pay cut. It's our standard of living ever so slowly, gradually, falling behind our peers. But I believe that eventually, we can turn this pessimism over time into optimism with a five-word call to action: productivity must be our priority now. My friend, Hugh McFee, some of you may know Hugh, he's a consultant, he's worked in business and in government. He got me laughing last week. We were having a coffee, and he says, "You know, Dan, we gotta make productivity sexy." So, I'm thinking, okay, you know, how do we make productivity hot, hot, and heavy, sexy? So, I don't know, it kind of made me think of a Harlequin romance, you know, "The Minister of Finance pulled the economy close to his chest, could feel his heart pounding, he thrust his policies forward, unleashing a torrent of passionate productivity," right? Well, maybe not. Maybe that wouldn't work.

And certainly, I think Minister Mulroney will agree with me that no party will ever win an election by pledging to improve the ratio of gross domestic product to hours worked, right? I cannot see the premier or any of the lead party leaders saying, "This election is about one question: whom do you trust to increase output per unit of input," right? I don't think that exactly rolls off the tongue and creates the headline that our leaders will want. But you know, what? Maybe it's about connecting today's investments in productivity to benefits that each and every one of us, and everybody watching, you know, remotely, and everybody else in Ontario can understand. For citizens, productivity, better productivity leads to higher job, higher wage; it leads to better jobs, making it easier to take that vacation, or buy your kid the new hockey skates, more money in your RSP, more MRI machines, shorter wait times when you get sick. For businesses, it means more money left at year-end to invest in technologies that can make your businesses stronger, maybe even getting done in four days what we used to get done in five. And you can take that productivity dividend any way you want. For governments and taxpayers, well, it's more tax revenue. That's actually not a bad thing, if tax rates are staying the same, right? It enables virtuous choices. We can build infrastructure, we can improve healthcare, or we can even lower taxes. That would be a great debate to have at the next election.

Now, for those of us who live in the worlds of public policy and business, it's easy to be critical of political leaders—and there are a lot of, there are a number of political leaders in the room, and those who work with leaders in the room today—and I want to acknowledge that these are hard jobs, right? These are really hard jobs. Since starting this job, I've spoken personally to all of Ontario's party leaders. And one thing that deeply encourages me is that, despite their differences of style and substance—and there are many—they share a desire to make life more affordable, they share a desire to find the resources that we need to fund investments in our collective future. And so, I think it's important to support our government partners when they make decisions that will benefit not just them and us in the next few years, as they run for re-election, but will benefit generations and generations to come, right? We applaud the Ontario government's support of plans for the next generation of nuclear energy, right? That was a really exciting announcement. And, and the work that's happening with OPG, with Hydro One, with Bruce Power, it's exciting stuff. Building the Ontario Line, Minister Mulroney's, you know, one of her great examples of leadership, right? Upscaling our workforce, improving recognition for people who come here with foreign credentials. We applaud the federal government for so many things too, for the commitment to high frequency high-speed rail, for their technology adoption programs for business, for using market forces to put a price on carbon.

Because that is the most effective, cost-effective way to reduce emissions and federal strategies to unlock private capital for clean technology. And I got to say, nothing we love more than seeing governments of all types, of all stripes, working together, like the shared commitment we've seen to build housing, or the historic investments to make Ontario a manufacturing powerhouse once more. I spoke to the premier on Monday—one of those surprise calls, private number, and it's the premier, you know, it happens a few times, it's happened a few times to me already—and, you know, we had a great chat. He's incredibly proud of Ontario's manufacturing Renaissance. And he should be. I mean, this week, we saw a survey that showed that Canada had overtaken China in global rankings for battery supply chains. And while the study said Canada, it may as well have said Ontario. And I think that's pretty exciting.

Yeah, that's worth applauding. That's worth applauding. That is worth applauding, because it's an example of leadership, business, private sector, nonprofit sector, workers, labour, academia, working together in common cause. And that's what we aspire to do. But as partners with government, we also have to be frank in making the case for action that's overdue, particularly when we believe and the data show that that action could be transformative. What if funding for Ontario's universities and colleges were the highest per student in the country, and not among the lowest? Yeah, imagine. What if the federal and provincial governments, instead of surprising each other with announcements—especially the feds, especially surprising the provinces with announcements as they did a couple weeks ago—what if they work together to ensure that we can sustain our high immigration levels, by matching them to the systems, to train and house and care for new Canadians? What if we were among the most advanced countries in the world, in the way we use data to improve patient outcomes in healthcare? What if we stop the endless, pointless battle about carbon taxes, and actually gave businesses the policy certainty they need to invest in the clean economy? And what if we focused instead on keeping other taxes low, and on helping Industries and workers make that transition faster?

Finally, what if we really did make productivity our priority? What if it were the North Star behind every public policy decision? We know that capital will flow where productive capacity is highest. Let's have it flow to Ontario. I believe it's possible. And at the Chamber, we do this work, my team and I, because we believe passionately in the power of dialogue and of partnership. It's about improving public policy discourse, kind of turning down the heat a little bit and turning up the light. It's about listening to One Another, listening to learn, not just to prepare your next argument, right? You know? And also listening to people and communities that we haven't sufficiently listened to before. It's about developing smarter solutions, and making better decisions, rooted not in ideology but in evidence. So, if you're a member of the Ontario Chamber, I thank you deeply for supporting this important and essential work. And if you're not a member yet, please consider joining us in this ongoing partnership, for a brighter economic future. The present speaks loudly, the future taps us quietly on the shoulder. It's time we listen, it's time we listen. Thank you so much.

So, with that setup, I'm absolutely delighted to turn it over to a face and a voice that I think everybody here will know—and if not, you should—Amber Kanwar is anchor and reporter for BNN Bloomberg, and she is going to introduce an absolutely outstanding panel that we brought together today. Please join me in welcoming Amber Kanwar.

Amber Kanwar, Anchor & Reporter, BNN Bloomberg
Okay, thank you so much. There are children watching, so we're going to keep our Harlequin references to a minimum. I would like to bring up our panel: Douglas Porter of BMO, Minister Carolyn Mulroney, and of course, David Lebeter of Hydro One. And as they make their way up, Dan really set up a beautiful arch of how we're going to talk about the economy, what the forecast is for going forward—and we've got representatives from the economics community, from the policy community, and of course, a business leader himself. And it's really about addressing the risks in this report, and being able to withstand risks that we might not know are even out there—as David found out last week, when four little raccoons walked into your facility and knocked out power of half the city.

David Lebeter, President & CEO, Hydro One
Yeah, a little family got a little bit eager and got into one of our facilities—I apologize to everyone in the room today who lost power that day. Sad to say, one raccoon didn't make it. The other three we successfully trapped and relocated. So.

Amber Kanwar
Hard to think we could go lower than the sentiment now. We've lost a raccoon in the process, but let's use that number of sentiment as sort of a jumping off point. And maybe David, you could kick that off. As a business leader, does it resonate with you? Do you see why sentiment feels so low right now?

David Lebeter
You know, I absolutely see it. I see it in my building where I live in High Park, with the people that are moving out because they can't afford to live there anymore. When I walk on Bloor West, I see it in the empty storefronts that when I moved here four years ago, the businesses were thriving. But I also have the privilege of being in one of the sectors that was identified in the report that's actually doing well, which is energy, specifically utilities. And I think about the future, the foundation we're building in this province today. And when I look across North America, this is a really unique place. We're actually building a foundation in the electrical infrastructure, whether it's generation, transmission, or distribution, that will support a renaissance in manufacturing—and I steal that word, Daniel, I like that word, the renaissance. I've called it the rebirth, but I like renaissance better. What you're seeing in Ontario is new investment being attracted, whether it's battery manufacturing, new automobile factories, whether it's the mining sector, so many other industries coming here because of the advantages Ontario brings, which is clean energy, low-cost, and affordable energy, and reliable energy. And I see it in the greenhouse sector. Although the agricultural sector that was identified in that report as not doing well. You look at the greenhouses, Ontario has more acreage under glass than any other jurisdiction in North America, and it's growing. And they're exporting to the US and to Canada. In fact, I was back West a couple of weeks ago and I was eating tomatoes that came from Ontario greenhouses, and they were absolutely delicious. So, I accept where we are today. But like Daniel, I see a bright future coming down the road. We're laying the foundations today.

Amber Kanwar
Caroline, as a policymaker, there might be green shoots per sector. But when you get a sentiment number that low, does that create a sense of urgency that maybe more blanket business-friendly tools are needed? I mean, all of all their prescriptions were calling, you know, what they want: tax cuts. Well

The Honourable Caroline Mulroney, President of the Treasury Board, Minister of Francophone Affairs, Province of Ontario
Well, first of all, I want to say thank you to the Ontario Chamber for their great work, because it does help inform the work that we do as policymakers. And, you know, all of you know, my boss, Premier Ford, probably well—he's probably called you all at some point, you've all seen that no caller ID number pop up in your phone. But I think he's been very clear since the beginning, when we were first selected in 2018, that he has a vision for making Ontario open for business and creating the conditions for growth. We've obviously gone through a difficult time through the pandemic, and we're focused very much on the recovery. And it's been difficult. We've seen costs go up. The cost of living has gone up, and the cost, cost of doing business has gone up. But since we were-elected in 2018, and, you know, ever since that time, we've been working on trying to take measures to make it easier to clear some of those hurdles. You know, my first job is as the MPP for a riding just north of Toronto called York—Simcoe. And we have—shout out to York—Simcoe—we are really the salad bowl of Ontario. Almost 60 percent of all the onions and carrots that Canada produces come from York—Simcoe. So, I spend a lot of time with farmers. And so, the sentiment that was expressed in that report was something that I do hear very, very often from my own constituents. And for them, the cost of doing business has, has gotten to be very high. The cost of transportation is, is, is adding to that. The carbon tax is an issue for farmers, and regulation is also an issue. And so, those are things that we've been focused on addressing as much to the extent that we can, which is why building infrastructure like the Bradford Bypass and the 413 are so important to help lower the cost of transporting our goods.

And red tape reduction, while it doesn't sound sexy—and maybe we'll add it to Peter's Harlequin romance book—we've taken that very seriously. And we've introduced over—we've introduced 11 red tape reduction bills since we were-elected, to try to clear some of those hurdles to make it easier, particularly for small businesses, to do work. They don't have huge compliance departments to address all the red tape that government will throw their way. And so, we've been working very hard to reduce those barriers. And I think we've quantified it—and Giles was working on this, when he was working with the Ontario government—almost a billion dollars worth of savings for small businesses for businesses, as a result of the work that we've taken on that. So, I, I acknowledge that the sentiment is real, I feel it as a as a representative. But we've been taking action, and I think that I also see reason for hope. And, you know, last year, almost 5,000 new businesses opened their doors, creating jobs. Over 183,000 new jobs were created. And from a credit rating perspective, which we might hear from Douglas, you know, we're moved to a positive outlook, which is great news. And so, I have a reason for hope, but there's still a lot more work that we're doing.

Amber Kanwar
One of those reasons for hope is that inflation is coming down, but as Caroline and David are discussing, there's inflation and then there's affordability, and those are two different things.

Douglas Porter, Chief Economist & Managing Director, Economics, BMO
Yeah, it is. So, I'm going to do something out of character and start off with something positive.

Amber Kanwar
Oh.

Douglas Porter
I think if you think back to the summer of '22, we were looking at over nine percent inflation in the US, over eight percent inflation in, in Canada. We're now just a little bit more than three percent. And we got there without a recession. We have never seen inflation come down that much that fast, without the benefit—or the assistance, I guess I would say—of a recession. I, I personally think one of the big surprises of the past year, the big economic surprise, is how well the global, US, and even Canadian economy have hung in there, against the backdrop of the ferocious interest rate increase we saw of the past two years. If you think back to the start of last year, and the conventional wisdom was that certainly Canada, and perhaps the US, was going to go through at least a mild downturn. And while it's been a bit of a rocky ride, we have avoided a downturn. My favourite—and just stepping back to the US for a second—my favourite economic factoid of the past year is the US economy actually accelerated in 2023. It didn't deteriorate after the Fed raised rates by five percentage points; it accelerated. And why did it do that? A lot of it was because the consumer hung in there. And I think that's been a story here, as well. So, while, while it's been a tough ride for the economy, I think we've avoided the worst. There's actually, you know, plenty of talk now that the US economy can get through this with a soft landing, if they're going to land at all. They're actually still grinding out growth, in the neighbourhood of three percent right now. So, I actually think there are some encouraging signals.

The last thing I would say is there was actually an item in the Wall Street Journal today, saying there's a mismatch or a disconnect between the very low level of sentiment and the actual economic performance we're seeing. And I think to some extent that's true here, as well. We all read the horrible headlines about inflation and the rise in interest rates. And yet, when you look at the unemployment rate, you look at where inflation is right now, it doesn't really sync with just how negative sentiment is.

Amber Kanwar
They call that the vibe session, right?

Douglas Porter
Right.

Amber Kanwar
It's just like the data is good, but the vibes are off, to borrow from the generation below me. And it's maybe has to do with that cost-of-living issue.

Douglas Porter
Absolutely.

Amber Kanwar
But you mentioned something that I want to pick up on, which is we escaped through what was supposed to be a bad year. Do you still see a recession on the horizon for Canada, and by extension, Ontario?

Douglas Porter
So, it's interesting, whenever I talk to an audience like this, I always like to do a quick poll and ask them, you know, "Yes or no, do you think Canada is going to be in a recession in the next year?" Actually, why don't we do that for a second? So, how many people would say yes to that answer, they think Canada will be in a recession over the next 12 months? Don't be shy, it's only your opinion. Very optimistic audience, apparently. How many people would say no? Okay—and so, the other 40 percent think I'm the one who should be answering that question. No, actually, that's a very optimistic outlook. I've generally seen, on average, it's about 50/50; it's a very close call. So, our official call is that we'll just skirt through without a recession. But it does feel bad, going back to an earlier point by Daniel, in terms of per-person output. It, you know, we are actually seeing a decline, which is rare.

Amber Kanwar
And it affects psychology too, right? Because we're still dealing with inflation, Caroline, the government is limited in its ability to get out of a downturn through stimulus, right? Because you don't want to make inflation worse. How do you think about limiting even slow growth, to Doug's point, it doesn't feel great.

The Hon. Caroline Mulroney
Well, we've got a very prudent, balanced approach in our spending. We're very clear in what we're trying to achieve. And, you know, Daniel alluded to it in his speech. As I said, our premier has a vision; he wants to transform Ontario's economy, bring it back to being a manufacturing powerhouse. And he's done that through our investments with the federal government in the electric vehicle sector. We've been working on extracting our rich critical resources from the North, and bringing them and connecting them to the plants that we're building in the south. And that, I think, contributes to some of the confidence that we're seeing. And we're investing even more in our energy sector. So, we are making targeted, prudent investments, that we know will pay off in the future. But even in the short term, you know, we brought in, we created more manufacturing jobs in Ontario than all 50 states combined, last year. You know, we have done, made tremendous strides. Whereas, through 2018, when we were-elected, over 350,000 manufacturing jobs had left Ontario. So, that's about the climate. And you can't do it overnight, so you've got to be deliberate and responsible, in the way that you bring in these measures and these policies. But as I said, we've also been able to do with the federal government along the way. And so, we've really been able to contribute to, I think, the benefit of Ontarians.

Amber Kanwar
David, how do you live and breathe that inflation cost of doing business story? Is it getting better for you? How does it affect whether you're going to make investments?

David Lebeter
We're in a fortunate position that a lot of what we do is, as I said earlier, is setting the foundation for supporting the manufacturing, the growth of new jobs, small businesses. So, we need to make those investments. We do pay attention to inflation. It's certainly something that's front and centre for us, that has driven up some costs. We got a fantastic productivity improvement, much like the provincial government. We're trying to drive costs out of the business to compensate for that. But equally important, we have these amazing partnerships, whether it's with communities, the government, the provincial government, the federal government, municipalities, or indigenous groups, that want to see this infrastructure built, that want to see these programs go forward. Because they know that down the road, that will bring economic prosperity, well-paying jobs, stability, and affordability. So, while inflation is there for us, and it's certainly something we pay attention to and try to manage, we have a bigger driver that's pushing us forward, and I think we're blazing the trail for others to come in behind.

Amber Kanwar
Dan referenced that this perhaps is the big issue of our time, which is productivity. Doug, as an economist, can you put some numbers around where exactly Canada stands and, you know, how far we've fallen behind.

Douglas Porter
So, in growth rates, we've actually seen productivity decline in the last five years—and you cannot blame COVID, because the US has actually seen pretty typical productivity growth over those five years. In terms of the level of output per person, we've slowly but surely slid down the rankings, and we're pretty much middle of the pack in the OECD. And, you know, no offense, but we're essentially in the league with Italy and Spain. You know, we're well below a place involving the US, and we're well below the Nordic economies, and we're even 10 percent below Australia, which, you know, we have many similarities with the Australian economy. Now, we are ahead of, say, places like Japan and some others. But the OECD now includes places like Turkey and Mexico. So, being in the middle of the pack is not necessarily a real badge of honour. It's, to me, it is the biggest challenge. I'm often asked, you know, "What is the one thing you would do?" There, there, look, we've looked at this for 40 years; it's been an issue in Canada. We did have a little bit of a productivity boom in the 90's. But I, I think just simply prioritizing the economy and productivity would be the, you know, the top of the list. You know, don't make it an afterthought, a secondary, a photo-op, you know, make the economy front and centre. And I think until it is, it's going to lag.

Amber Kanwar
Productivity. It's one of those words that's hard to understand. Caroline, what are the tangible things the government thinks about getting that? Is it technology? Is it reducing, to your point, red tape, increasing the speed and efficiency with which builders are able to build whatever it is they're building?

The Hon. Caroline Mulroney
I'd say all of that. We are looking at and making significant investments in technology. We already do. And I know that, you know, AI is moving very rapidly, and it will really help deliver better health outcomes, and also more productive doctors, nurses, personal support workers, et cetera. So, technology is certainly one of the ways we can do it. Getting rid of red tape that slows people down, that eats up hours of time that they could spend investing in their business is obviously another way. But we've been also very focused on making sure that we have the labour supply that we need, that's properly trained for the jobs that we have here in Ontario. You know, we've seen an incredible growth of immigration in the last year; almost 500,000 people came to Ontario. One in four new, one in four of those workers aren't doing the jobs that they were trained for. So, making sure that we are, you know, expediting their credentialing and making sure that they're actually trained for the jobs that they can do and the jobs that we need is also key.

Amber Kanwar
How big is that labour piece for you, David?

David Lebeter
Labour is 60 to 70 percent of our costs, so, everything we do. We count on skilled trades. We've been fortunate. The utility sector has been very stable. But as we grow, as the work programs grow, as others in the sector grow, there's an increased demand for labour. And we need it not just in the big centres; we need it across Ontario. Because it's the entire economy we're trying to keep moving.

Amber Kanwar
Does the labour market still feel as tight as it did a few years ago? Is it getting better?

David Lebeter
Our experience would be similar to what the report says: it's getting better. There are some areas that are challenging, but overall, we're seeing an improvement.

Amber Kanwar
Let's talk immigration, since Caroline brought it up. This has become a big focus for the economy, because it's sort of this double-edged sword, right? In some ways, it can alleviate those labour shortages. But on the other hand, it can make other issues when infrastructure, like housing, and other programs, are not yet equipped to deal with that influx.

Douglas Porter
I think it's all about balance. And I think the balance we lost it in the last couple of years. And you know, I, I think we should just stress the kind of numbers we're talking about, like a growth of 1.25 million people per year for the last year. That's like adding Nova Scotia and PEI all at, all at once. You know, you can talk all you want about the lack of supply in homes, but that is a tidal wave that we cannot handle. You know, even in a conservative measure, it would suggest that you'd have to build about 500,000 new homes to accommodate that—and that's a conservative estimate. We have never, ever, built as many as 300,000 homes in a single year. That is just unmanageable. There's no surprise at all that we're having serious rent inflation in that kind of backdrop. And, you know, this is not about pointing fingers; this is just the arithmetic of the situation. You know, the fact that even the federal government had suggested that they'd lost control of it tells, tells you all you really need to know. Yeah, and, and I do think that simply the housing inflation that it's created has basically swamped, you know, any of the benefits.

Amber Kanwar
And Caroline, this sort of this fell into the Ontario, into, to the province, and now you've, you've got to deal with it, at a time where there's a lot of pushback on where exactly are you going to develop, you know. We'll leave the controversy aside, but there is that push back.

The Hon. Caroline Mulroney
Well, we've, we've always been focused on building—and I'll say, our we've always led with an economic agenda. It's resonated very well at the polls. I think it's top, and top of, top of mind for everyone. And so, we were really focused on our building agenda. And in my previous role, I was Minister of Transportation, and we announced the largest transit build anywhere in North America, and I got to work with Aaron when he was Infrastructure Ontario on that. And even back in 2019, when we were talking about the challenges that we were going to face trying to get this project off the ground, the top challenge was labour supply, back in 2019. And so, we knew immigration was going to have to be part of the solution. We embarked on a very ambitious skills development program. We've invested almost a billion dollars in skills development programs across the province. And I can say on a, you know, on a transit project, IO will do the work to identify exactly the skills that are needed, and then work with the Ministry of Labour to make sure that we have the programs in place to train those workers. But we even knew back then that we weren't going to do it without immigration. And of course, we received more than we expected, and that's created a slew of other issues that we've got, and we absolutely have to address. But from a building perspective, they're key to our agenda. And we just have to make sure that we provide the opportunities that they deserve, and that includes training them.

Amber Kanwar
How are you addressing it because it did, even with those programs in place, to Doug's point, it was an overwhelming amount.

The Hon. Caroline Mulroney
On—for immigration?

Amber Kanwar
Yeah.

The Hon. Caroline Mulroney
Well, that's where we have to work with the federal government, to be able to provide a lot of the supports that are required. In our deal with the City of Toronto, we did provide hundreds of millions of dollars of support for new asylum claimants, and we are working on, on housing. In the Ministry of Labour, one of the things they're doing on the labour side for skills development is language training. It's a big part of what they're doing, to make sure that new Canadians arrive and can get the training they need to work in English, or in French. And so, there are a number of measures that we're taking. But we do need to do it with all levels of government. And we've been able to work so well. And that's, I think, one of the things that Premier Ford is very good at, is working collaboratively with other levels of government, to deliver on priorities that we all share.

Amber Kanwar
And I see you nodding along, David. Is the, do you feel like the kind of infrastructure that needs to be around to support the level of immigration, you're optimistic that can get done at some point?

David Lebeter
I think the right people are focused on it now. They weren't in the past. Just going back to the question about labour, it's really interesting. We've reached out to the university; we've created a strong pool, a channel for bringing co-op students in, and full-time residents, or full-time employees. We probably have one of the largest apprenticeship programs in Ontario for skilled trades, and we're able to attract people to those programs all across Ontario, which is really important. And we're working with our contractors that are building these transmission lines now, and they're bringing immigrants into the country, giving them highly-skilled jobs. We're making sure they take care of them, that they do have housing, they do have education, their families are taken care of. So, I think it's a multifaceted problem. You need industry working with government, both federal, provincial, municipal, to solve this challenge.

Amber Kanwar
Let's talk about the US. We don't know what's going to happen in 2024, come the election, but part of that robust growth has spilled over to Canada, right? If the US is doing well, as our largest trade partner, that does help Canada. Do you see political risk, growth risk, for Canada this year and next, because of what's unfolding in the US? Such a tremendous fiscal situation, in addition to political.

Douglas Porter
So, I talked at the start about the, the upside surprise in the US economy, and part of the story is the US consumer. The other part is Washington spent a lot of money in the last year. Many of the policies of the Biden Administration, like the so-called Inflation Reduction Act, or the "Chips and Science Act," they really began to gel last year. And that's when we saw the true factory building boom, and the budget deficit actually widened to almost two trillion dollars, in a year when they were at basically at full employment, and trying to fight inflation. Personally, I think that was a big policy error, you know, growing the budget deficit in an environment like that. But that was one of the big reasons why the US economy has fared so well. Typically, the US economy and the global economy tend to do a little bit better in an election year, because of some of the associated spending—and we're not looking for a particularly big slowdown in the US economy. When we look forward to the election—which I call the worst sequel ever—coming up this year, look, I'm going to quote another president, ex-US President Richard Nixon, once said, "The US economy is nothing more than 100 million Americans getting up every morning going to work." Now, it's 150 million. And the Canadian economy is nothing more than 20 million Canadians getting up and going to work. It makes great drama politically. But the reality is, that's not who drives the economy. It's you and I, and everyone in this room, who really drives the economy and affects the economy. It's interesting, in the seven years since Donald Trump was elected President, the US economy grew, and in the three years of Biden, the US economy grew at the exact same pace as it did in the seven years before Trump was president. So, again, it makes for a lot of fireworks and drama. I'm not sure it really moves the needle. Where I would be concerned, though, is on the protectionism front. That's something that Trump clearly differs.

Amber Kanwar
That's what I was going to bring you in. On, trade, it certainly matters. And strengthening those ties, how do you think about that this year?

The Hon. Caroline Mulroney
Well, we have a great relationship with the US, our border US states, with other American states, and with the US in general. There's probably some friendly competition when it comes to attracting business, and when we're able to land a big EV auto manufacturer, we're very pleased. There may have been some US jurisdictions that were, that lost out on that—so there's, as I said, some friendly competition. But there's great opportunity to continue to work together. Again, in my previous role as Minister of Transportation, one of the things that I realized when I got there is, before it was just the Ministry of Transportation, it was actually the Ministry of Highways and Telecommunications. And at some point, it lost the telecom part of the, part of it's work, and it was just the Ministry of Highways. And if you spend time in government, you might think that that's all the Ministry of Transportation does. But that's actually kind of one of the reasons Metrolinx was created, when MTO wanted to get into transit building. But there was a business line that was completely missing within the ministry, which is the marine sector.

Amber Kanwar
M'hm (affirmative).

The Hon. Caroline Mulroney
And Martin and I got to work a little bit when he was at the Port of Montréal on that. I had been in Montréal, and spent some time with some marine stakeholders, and came back to Ontario and realized we don't do anything in the marine sector. And the Great Lakes, if it were its own country, would be the third-largest economy by GDP. There's so much potential there for additional trade, for additional cooperation with, with our US partners. So, Ontario did launch its first Marine Strategy in the fall. And there's great potential. But a lot of it will also rely on continued trade with the United States. And I think both of us, both countries, will benefit.

Amber Kanwar
Worried about protectionism?

The Hon. Caroline Mulroney
No, I mean, we, you know, we've got to do what we can, what we have to, to protect our local businesses, and give them the opportunities to survive. But as the daughter of someone who brought in free trade, I feel very strongly that that's the right way to go, and I stick to it.

Amber Kanwar
On that, we look at trade south. But one of the other recommendations in the report was trade barriers within the country, between provinces, and that remains pretty stubborn.

The Hon. Caroline Mulroney
Absolutely, and the premier has an opportunity to meet with the Council of Federations, all the provincial premiers, and talk about priorities. And I know that that's always been a major topic. And, you know, he'll continue to advance that.

Amber Kanwar
I, I, what time is it? I should...

David Porter
It's 1:30.

Amber Kanwar
Okay, so we have a few minutes left. Because we did kind of start a little bit downbeat, I do want to leave with kind of a message of optimism. What gives you hope? Is it innovation, our ability to, to kind of increase the productivity? Doug, when you look at a green shoot for 2024, where could the upside surprise come from?

Douglas Porter
So, I think one of the reasons why people are depressed and down, and why the confidence numbers are so weak, is, you know, many generations just lived through their first taste of real inflation. And inflation is slowly but surely getting back to, quote, "normal." And I do think interest rates are going to come down. I think, as I said, the big backup in interest rates did, you know, did concern a lot of small businesses, in particular. And so, I think that's one thing to look forward to, as we are probably looking at somewhat more moderate inflation and interest rates over the next year. Longer term, look, while the productivity numbers are terrible, the reality is we do have an incredibly well-educated workforce. And I think we will get through this, and we will see a better next five years than the past five years on the productivity front.

David Lebeter
I, I just have so much optimism for this province—and Canada as a whole, but this province, in particular. This is the manufacturing centre of Canada. It never lost that. It slid, but it's having a renaissance. It's coming back. We're attracting, as Caroline said, you know, almost half a million immigrants to this province every year. They're coming here because they see the economic prosperity, and the likelihood, and the opportunity to build a better life for their families. Our universities and our colleges are turning out very talented, well-educated people, who want to get on. So, like this room, when Doug did the survey, most people felt optimism. I feel that optimism as well. We're laying a foundation, we're getting on a good path, and I just think it's only going to get better from here. I would add, I think part of the pessimism is what's going on in the world around us. Like, it's really difficult to separate in our daily lives, when we get fed in the news media all the time about the horrible things that are going around. And I encourage everyone: reflect back and think on the brightness that is actually happening here, and the change we're driving, whether it's the relationship with Indigenous peoples, welcoming new immigrants, building infrastructure, having the cleanest electricity grid in, probably, the world. That is something we should be proud of, and we should be able to capitalize on those. So. I just have a lot of optimism.

Amber Kanwar
And Caroline, I'll give you the last word.

The Hon. Caroline Mulroney
Well, I share that optimism. And I, you know, I acknowledge that, obviously, the cost of living has gone up, and the cost of business, according to the report, as well, has, has gone up. And I will say, I know that the cost of getting around Toronto has been great lately. And the reason that we've seen such a growth in congestion is because we're building so much. There are more cranes in the sky in Ontario than all the other cities below us. Where we have about 240 in the sky, the next city after us is Seattle, with 45. So, we're building. We're building transit, we're building roads, highways, schools, bridges; we have hospitals. So, we have so much to look forward to. We need the people to help us get that done, but we have so much to look forward to. And I think, on the technology side, we're making critical investments, especially in healthcare, that are really going to help drive better health outcomes, and we're going to see that. And so, so I've got great optimism for the future, and I know we're on the right path.

Amber Kanwar
Minister, David, Doug, thank you so much for your thoughts and your candour, and everybody for your attention.

Sal Rabbani
Thank you. Thank you very much, Amber, for facilitating today's discussion. I'd now like to take this opportunity to invite Daniel Safayeni to the stage, Vice-President, Policy, at the Chamber of Commerce, and a fellow Board Director of the Empire Club of Canada.

Note of Appreciation by Dan Safayeni, Vice-President, Policy, Ontario Chamber of Commerce, Board Director, Empire Club of Canada
Thank you very much, Sal. Folks, I know it's the bottom of the hour, here, so I will keep it brief. But I did want to join Sal in thanking the panel, Amber, Doug, David, Minister Mulroney, for the fantastic insights. We were just chatting a few minutes before the panel started, how are we going to fit all of that into 25 minutes? I thought they did a fantastic job providing a tour de force. So, please join me in thanking them. We, we, we talked a little bit before about how, you know, always want to leave the audience wanting a bit more—it's a saying in the music biz, but I think the panel did a great job. Certainly, we would want those insights for a lot longer than we had them. Look, very quickly, by way of introduction, my name is Dan Safayeni, I have the pleasure of both being VP of Policy at the Chamber of Commerce, but also the honour of being a Director at the Empire Club. So, today's event is a special one for me for many reasons. But there are a few folks—if you could bear with me—that do need to be named and shamed, if you will, in front of everyone. First of all, the intellectual support that the report has received. Doug and his colleagues at BMO have provided us with a regional economic analysis that's exclusive to the report, and allows us to go deeper into our projections than we otherwise would. And, of course, our research partners in Golfdale Consulting, Gary and Honde (ph). If you've ever had a conversation with either of these two folks, you'll leave with it rich with insights. And so, we couldn't do this work without them.

But I would also be remiss, if I didn't just take a moment to acknowledge the heavy lifting from a staff perspective, at both the Empire Club and the Ontario Chamber of Commerce. And since it is awards season, maybe to move things along, we could just hold the applause until the end, and we can thank all the partners and the staff together. So, first of all, Kent Emerson, Jehan Karsan, Sarah Lopes, the crew at the Empire Club that puts on such a seamless production for the 400 folks in the room today, and the nearly thousand people tuning in online across the country, as well. We are deeply appreciative to them, who were ably supported by the incredible events team at the Ontario Chamber of Commerce: Jessica Wright, Kiran Balladin, as well. Big thanks to them for stepping in and supporting. My other colleagues at the Chamber of Commerce: Samir Janmohamed, and Andrea Carmona, who led the charge on the public affairs front. They helped secure the stellar panel that you just heard from; they've also drummed up all kinds of media attention that we'll be speaking to, throughout the course of the day, on the report. So, big thanks to them. [indiscernible] Chow (ph), who helped bring the report to life. If you do have a chance to check it out, she did incredible design work. Neeky Dalir, sitting right over there, who helped us secure all kinds of financial support to help underwrite this initiative, as well. Lastly, folks—and I'm rounding it out here—I want to give an enormous shout-out to the report authors: Claudia Desanti, Esther Gerassime, and Simranzeet Singh. And, and having authored a much worse version of this report myself, several years ago, I know firsthand the type of work that goes into this: the late nights, working through the break to turn around the survey data in a timely way, so it could be more actionable to the business community, the thoughtful analysis that goes into every word. So, please join me in giving a huge round of applause to both teams.

Last, last thing here, folks—thank you so much—and last thing here, folks, just, just as we wrap, you know, our President and CEO, Dan Tisch, spoke at the top about how, behind every survey response is a business, and that business has a story. And while today, we did a great job of presenting those headlines, and unpacking some of those headlines with this panel, I strongly do encourage everyone in this room to check out the fully digital and interactive version of our report. It can be found on our website, OCC.ca, and keep the conversation going in the room and online.

And why do we say keep the conversation going? At a time when evidence-based decision-making and informed public debate is out of premium, we at the Chamber have tried to contribute to this constructive dialogue, with a fact-based report that we've released today. And we hope that report will act as a reference, as a benchmark, and as a catalyst for future debate, and informed public policy. And we look forward to being part of that at the Chamber of Commerce. A big thanks to everyone in the room for coming out today. Sa's going to close us out with some housekeeping, and then we're done. Okay, thank you very much, folks.

Concluding Remarks by Sal Rabbani
Thank you. Thank you very much, Danel, and thank you to our distinguished panel. As a club of record, all Empire Club of Canada events are available to watch and listen to on demand on our website. For those that are registered, you will receive an email with the link.

Join us next week, on Thursday, February the 15th. We'll have leading AI panellists from the top Canadian AI startups, researchers, and venture capitalists, to discuss what Canada needs to do to put together a strong framework for AI in this country. We're also inviting you to join us virtually, on February 28th, for the Empire Club of Canada's celebration of Black excellence and history. A panel of inspirational Black women discussing their careers and paths to success. Thank you all for your participation today and support. This meeting is now adjourned.