Bonnie for Ontario: Vision and Grit

April 4, 2024

The Empire Club of Canada Presents

Bonnie for Ontario: Vision and Grit

Chairman: Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada

Moderator
Mike Van Soelen, Director, Past President, Empire Club of Canada

Distinguished Guest Speakers
The Honourable Bonnie Crombie , Leader of the Ontario Liberal Party
Tim Hudak, CEO, OREA

Head Table Guests
Hon. Scott Brison, Vice-Chair, BMO Wealth Management
Kent Emerson , Strategic Lead, Empire Club of Canada
Sarah Letersky, Director, Empire Club of Canada, Senior Vice-President & National Health Practice lead, Rubicon Strategy
Salman Pathan , Chief Executive Officer, Globyz Pharma
Giuseppe Paolicelli, Executive Vice President of Construction & Land Development, Solmar Group of Companies
Leslie Woo, Chief Executive Officer, Civic Action

Introduction
It is a great honour for me to be here at the Empire Club of Canada today, which is arguably the most famous and historically relevant speaker’s podium to have ever existed in Canada. It has offered its podium to such international luminaries as Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan, Audrey Hepburn, the Dalai Lama, Indira Gandhi, and closer to home, from Pierre Trudeau to Justin Trudeau; literally generations of our great nation's leaders, alongside with those of the world's top international diplomats, heads of state, and business and thought leaders.

It is a real honour and distinct privilege to be invited to speak to the Empire Club of Canada, which has been welcoming international diplomats, leaders in business, and in science, and in politics. When they stand at that podium, they speak not only to the entire country, but they can speak to the entire world.

Welcome Address by Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Hello everyone, and welcome to the 120th season of the Empire Club of Canada. My name is Sal Rabbani, and it's an honour to stand before our community, as Chair of the Board of Directors of the Empire Club of Canada.

To formally begin this afternoon, I want to acknowledge that we are gathering today on the traditional and treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabeg, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat Peoples. We encourage everyone to learn more about the Traditional Territory on which you work and live. This is an essential first step to Reconciliation, and each and every one of us has a role to play.

Today, we have the honour of welcoming Bonnie Crombie on our stage. We've been saying Mississauga's Mayor Crombie for close to a decade now—and since December, we're saying Ontario Liberal Party leader Bonnie Crombie. Welcome to the Empire Club of Canada, Ms. Crombie, we're very happy to have you. A big thanks also to our very own board director, my dear friend Mike Van Soelen, who will moderate today's conversation.

In one of her first interviews after being nominated as Leader of Ontario's Liberals, our guest said that her plan is to start touring Ontario, and meet as many people as possible, and get them to know her, and her plans for the province, and the way ahead. We're happy that you chose the Empire Club for your first major speaking appearance, as Ontario's new Liberal leader. This is the place to be. We have a full house today, and there's many more online; folks who want to hear and learn about your vision for the province. The Ontario business community is here. Businesses of all sizes, and all levels of growth, and in all sectors; representatives of Ontario's future leadership are also here. All of our events at the club have a sponsored student table. So, welcome, again, and we're looking forward to the conversation.

You know, when I was younger, I got to be a legislative page at Queen's Park. You know, it's a great experience, and opportunity at a young age—I think I was 12 or 13—to kind of experience the provincial legislature in action. You meet key political figures, learn the ropes of the democratic exercise, like how a bill becomes a law, and how it all starts with an idea. Which was fascinating for me, at that age. It was a great opportunity to become a more informed and engaged citizen. But the most important things that I took away from that time there was the understanding of the work, the effort, and sacrifice of our political representatives, notwithstanding their political stripes. It was the first time I realized just how hard they worked for their constituents, the people. I also had the chance to appreciate the role of government—and this is what triggered me to look into the underpinnings of our system of parliamentary democracy—a continuous, stable democracy, based on one essential reality, which is that we're richer and stronger, by celebrating our diversity and pluralism.

And is with the same convictions that we've built a conversation platform relevant for all Ontarians and Canadians, 120 years ago, when the Empire Club was born, by bringing to our community different, and diverse points of view. Two weeks ago, we had the Honourable Peter Bethlenfalvy, the Minister of Finance for the Government of Ontario delivering his Pre-Budget Address. Last week, we had a political panel of experts analyzing the political situation in our province right now. And today, we have the privilege of hearing from our distinguished guest, Bonnie Crombie, the newly elected Leader of Ontario's Liberal Party. The insights we get from different perspectives are essential, if we want to build a stronger province, a stronger democracy, and a better future for us all.

You know, before we move on, I also want to take pause to recognize our sponsors, who generously support the club, and make these incredible events possible and complementary for our online viewers to attend. Thank you to our VIP Reception Sponsors, Somar Development Corp, and the Ontario Real Estate Association. And thank you to our Supporting Sponsors, Aurora Strategy Global, Fasken, Skype Line, Rios, and Waste Connections of Canada. And thank you to our Season Sponsors, AWS, Bruce, Power and Hydro One.

We'd also like to recognize the Empire Club's board of directors, and our dedicated staff working miracles every time, and putting together these events and conversations. Thank you again for all that you do, and thank you to our community. Please take the time to engage in this conversation. You're in a prime position to ask Bonnie Crombie questions about her vision, and you can do that by scanning that QR code found in your program booklet. This is an interactive event. And for those of you joining us online, you can ask questions through that Q&A portal under your video player.

It is now my pleasure to introduce Bonnie Crombie, Leader of the Ontario Liberal Party.

The Honourable Bonnie Crombie, Leader of the Ontario Liberal Party
Oh my goodness. Well, I have to say, this is very, very humbling. Thank you very, very much, Sal, as well, for the very lovely introduction. Thank you, Sal. So, good afternoon everyone. Did you have a nice lunch? Wasn't it enjoyable? It is great to be back at the Empire Club, and up here behind the podium for the very first time as the Ontario Liberal Party Leader, that's pretty incredible.

I want to thank the Empire Club for the invitation, at such an important moment for our province. You offer a platform to discuss the most important business and economic issues of our time, and how they converge with politics, right? Everyone in this room will be familiar with the Ontario Budget, and the unpleasant truths about the economy that it laid bare. Growth is stagnant, barely expected to hit .3 percent this year. Even as the US economy is charging ahead, our economic indicators are trending in the wrong direction. Growth is down, business confidence is down, the debt, the deficit, and the unemployment rate are up. No matter which party you support, there is reason to be concerned about the state of Ontario today, our economy, our healthcare, and our education.

And we all know that people in this province are feeling deeply anxious about how to afford the essentials. Now, I'm going to say something important: I'm not up here today to throw any partisan barbs about how we got here. I'm here to share my vision for a more prosperous Ontario. One with a thriving economy, strong enough to fuel the progress that we so desperately need. I don't pretend that there aren't external market forces that have a major impact on where we are today. But there are concrete actions that we can and should be taking, with the levers that we do have, here in Ontario, to help pull us to propel us forward. Change won't be easy. It's going to take a little "Grit." [Laughter & Applause] You like that?

But it's the only path. Because right now things aren't easy. In Ontario, I meet people every day who share their stories with me, and it's tough to hear. Single moms, who can't buy groceries and pay their rent, young fathers waiting too long in an ER, far away, with a sick and fussy baby, students who can't afford their tuition, seniors—my mother, one of them—worried about a long-term care system, too broken to be there when they need it. People who are working hard, and quite rightly ask, "Where is my money going?" We can do better than this. I know that in Ontario, when we work together, we do remarkable things. But we need leaders with grit. We need to make the real people of Ontario, and the businesses of Ontario, our priority. And we need to make meaningful progress. Because what we need right now, is a strong and growing economy. Strong economic growth is the pre-requisite to building an abundant future—you're going to hear that word for me a lot going forward: abundancy.

So, I want to talk for a moment about Ontario Liberals, and that old Grit philosophy of creating the economic conditions that are, require us to invest in the progress that we need, to get ahead. You know, I first became a Liberal as a teenager—that was a long time ago—when the country was seized with big debates about our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and the future of our federation. Being a Liberal, for me, was always about ensuring that the fundamentals were there to give people a fair shot at success. And a strong economy was part of that. Now, things have evolved. Back in the David Peterson days, some of us will remember, we were door knocking; we used to use clipboards to identify votes, right? Later, when I worked for some marketing corporations in Canada, and the US—McDonald's Corporation, the Walt Disney Company—the execs were using those bulky car phones, and pagers were the rage. Fast forward a few years, and the young moms I knew, they all had flip phones. Remember those? Flip phones—those were good, because nobody could read your lips. But when I got older, my kids got older, I ran for office. And as a Liberal Member of Parliament in Ottawa, I'm going to tell you, it wasn't unusual to carry not one, but two BlackBerrys, right? And wasn't the BlackBerry a revolution? It's easy to forget how novel it felt to carry your e-mail on your hip. Remember? We used to clip them to our belt loops. I'm sure many of you still do an entire day's business from the palm of your hand—and maybe some of you are doing that right now.

It's pretty incredible to think that our handheld digital age was born not far from here, just down the 401, in Waterloo, Ontario. That global revolution was sparked in one of our world-class universities. We did that here in Ontario, because we created the conditions for innovation. And the legacy of the BlackBerry isn't just in your hand, but it's up and down the 401 corridor. That innovation corridor, from Kitchener, to Waterloo, to Toronto, to Ottawa. With giants, like Google, Oracle, OpenText, Shopify, Amazon, Snapchat, PointClickCare, Mitel—they all employ graduates of our public universities. And each year, new grads launch startups in Life Sciences, BioTech, and in FinTech, with ideas so advanced, it still sounds like science fiction.

But that opportunity, and our innovation economy, is fragile. Here's the hard economic truth of what's happening right now, in Ontario. Our labour force is not matching employers' needs, and our economic productivity is suffering because of it. Now, we like to think of ourselves as a modern economy that can, can compete anywhere in the world, right? But when you look at the data, we are not competing. Not with the growing economies overseas, not even with our closest neighbour, which is our largest trading partner. Ontario's economic output per worker doesn't rival tech giants in Massachusetts, or in New York. Our productivity is just behind Idaho, and on par with Alabama. Think about that. That's not good enough. Not for Ontario. But I'm even more concerned about what the future does bring. Between 2025 and 2030, our economy will undergo a massive disruption. Technologies like AI will continue to change how we live, how we work, and how we learn. Retirements will soar, shrinking our workforce, and straining our systems of care. We will still be grappling with how to build homes that people can afford, and public finances around the world will still be coping with high interest rates. Ontario is not an island that can withstand these national and global headwinds alone.

But here's the thing. It's not all doom and gloom. We can do something about this. If I were premier today—[Applause] thank you—I'd acknowledge the urgent need to do more, faster, to prepare our workers and our employers for the future. If I were premier today, I'd spend less time on pocketbook gimmicks, and more time on the fundamental differentiator for our economy: education. Education that starts with a strong daycare system, so young moms and dads can get back to work, and keep our economy growing. And continue that—[Applause] makes sense—and continues with the kindergarten classroom, with enough teachers and early childhood educators to give students the care that they need, and give them a lifelong love of learning. A system where we stop dumbing down our math classes, folks. Right? And prepare our students to compete in the world. A plan to help our kids, those who are still struggling after the pandemic to catch up, so that they're ready for college, or for university, or for an apprenticeship.

And nowhere is that attention required more urgently than at our colleges and universities. Our colleges give us the workers we need to fix the crisis in our healthcare and, and in our housing sectors, that are on the brink of collapse. Our universities are facing steep cuts, that will directly impact students now, and for years to come. Years. The need has never been greater to give our children the best possible education. I don't blame our colleges and universities for filling their funding gaps with foreign students. That was truly their only option. But now, it's time to balance that out. We don't need to make the pain worse with funding cuts on top of it, right now. The crisis, the crisis we see in our education system today did not happen by accident. It's reckless, and it's imperiling our economy. Without strong economic growth, we will not be able to support the public services, and the programs we all want. We won't be able to fix our healthcare system, and we won't fix the housing crisis that's holding us back, and we won't have the money to invest in the infrastructure that we need to withstand climate change.

So, here's my plan. In two years, if elected premier, I will put the development of a highly trained, highly skilled workforce, at the centre of our Economic Plan. It's the right thing to do. And it's just about the one thing that we actually can control—because I don't have a crystal ball. I can't predict who will win the US election, or whether NAFTA will survive another Trump White House. I can't predict exactly how many jobs will be disrupted by AI, or what new possibilities, Life Sciences or advanced manufacturing will bring. And I can't predict what new geopolitical threats will mean for our supply chain. But the provincial government can control one thing: preparing our workers, with the skills and the education that they need to succeed, in this competitive, changing economy.

It's a big task, but here are three practical steps to get us started. One, let's fund our colleges and universities properly. Let's strike a new deal for our colleges, to teach the essential skills that our workforce demands. Let's start treating our care workers with respect, and dignity—so, our nurses, and our PSW's, and our ECE's, can build a life that is comfortable. Two, let's fix our public schools, and invest in our educators, so that Ontario students are getting the best start. And third, let's tear down the barriers between our education system and our businesses, so we can identify and focus on the skills that employers need the most. Education is the absolute foundation of a 21st-century Economic Plan, and we can't compete without it.

And without a robust economy, we can't deliver the public services that are the scaffolding of society. Public services that have allowed generations of immigrants to come here, and build a home, and build a better life, and find the support that they need, when they need it, so they, in turn, can grow their families, and their businesses, and our economy. You probably have a personal story about that. I do. And if you don't mind, I'm going to share it with you. My grandparents came to Canada after World War II, from Poland, by way of France. Many of you know, I'm the most Scottish-sounding Polish woman you'll ever meet. Yeah. My mom was 12. They gave up everything to come to Ontario and build a better life. My grandmother had sisters here, and of course they were escaping the war, but also Communism, back home in Poland. My grandfather, he worked as the janitor at The Globe and Mail for 40 years, in that old building on Front Street. And he used to tell me that he would be spending his days cleaning all that white marble, all that white marble on those walls, and polishing those iconic brass railings, up and down those staircases. And I will never forget the first time I opened the door of that building to do an interview with CTV, their house in the basement, at the time. It hit me like a wave. There it was. The place he toiled for decades. And in one generation—one—I was walking in that building as a Member of Parliament. Who would have thought his hard work made that possible? He made that possible for me, and for my children. And I thought, how is it that in one generation, we can come so far? Well, can that happen today? It's because in Ontario, when we have grit, we create the conditions for progress. I want that still to be possible today. I want to restore that sense of abundant opportunity for today's generations, who are instead struggling. They're struggling to afford homes, they're saddled with tuition debt. They're worried about the climate crisis, and the cost of childcare. That opportunity is what's at risk, when our productivity lags, and when our economy teeters. When we fail to compete on a global scale, when we can't afford the services, the programs, that people rely on for a fair shot to get ahead. So, that's what I'm in it for, that's what I'm here fighting for, and that's what's at stake, what we talk about "The Economy."

Friends, the work starts now, step-by-step, by listening, by doing our homework. Because Ontario Liberals are going to put together a plan that will actually reflect what people and businesses across Ontario need right now. It is possible to feel optimistic about what the government can do for you. And my plan is to make it very clear over the next two years. So, to everyone in this room: you are the leaders. Whether you're in our party or not, I want to hear from you. Because we have work to do. Ontario is counting on us. Thank you.

Sal Rabbani
Thank you very much, Bonnie. To facilitate our discussion today, I invite to the stage my dear friend Mike Van Soelen, Director and Past President of the Empire Club of Canada. Mike, welcome.

Mike Van Soelen, Director, Past President, Empire Club of Canada
Bonnie.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Hello.

Mike Van Soelen
That was a hell of a speech.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Oh, thank you.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
It's a friendly crowd, so.

Mike Van Soelen
Well, you know, speaking of a friendly crowd, you said no partisan barbs.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Right.

Mike Van Soelen
I didn't hear any, I didn't hear any partisan barbs.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Correct.

Mike Van Soelen
But, you know, civility in politics, some people think an antiquated notion. As you get into this game, as you leave the, the comfy confines of, of Mississauga, and you go on this journey, like, where's, where's civility? Where's, where's, where's the cut-and-thrust of politics start...

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Oh...

Mike Van Soelen
...start and stop?

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
...oh my goodness. Well, my, my advice is stop reading social media.

Mike Van Soelen
Right.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Honestly, it's very harsh. There's been a dramatic change in shift...

Mike Van Soelen
Yeah.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
...in the kinds of comments people are leaving. And I, I know there are a number of women—especially elected officials—around International Women's Day, that talked about what they're enduring being an elected office as a woman, and the challenges we face, and how it's there isn't very much civility out there.

Mike Van Soelen
Right. Well, we had, of course, your friends in the Ontario PC Party run some ads; yet, yet you told your personal story, I didn't hear anything about long strolls in the Hamptons. So, you know, there, there's more to your story. You know, what, what, you know, do you want to share yet about your story that maybe hasn't come through, that...

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Oh, you know what, Mike?

Mike Van Soelen
...that people don't appreciate.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
I, I really want to thank you for that. And as some of you have, have heard, I was very close to my grandparents growing up, because they raised me. My mom was married and had me, and unfortunately, my biological dad, he suffered from mental illness and addiction, substance addiction issues. And I'll share with you, because I know it's a safe environment and you won't tell anyone, he actually passed away in the Seaton House. She went on to remarry—but I grew up with my grandparents. They owned a rooming house on Grenadier in Hyde Park, and life was very simple. I mean, I know I'm painted in those ads, as you know, flying in fancy jets—I've never been on one, not a private one—and, and having a house in the Hamptons, and like, that's not true or accurate either. But life was simple. We grew up with my grandparents. I learned Polish culture, tradition, language, how to make the food, that was very important. The food is always important; how to make pierogies and cabbage rolls. And my grandfather made sauerkraut, and cherry brandy, and all kinds of great things.

But it's interesting, because we didn't own a car. I didn't think we needed one; we rode the streetcar everywhere we went. We didn't have holidays—I don't think we could afford them, but I didn't know people have them. My, when my mom remarried, my new dad took us to Wasaga Beach. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven there, by the water. And then I came to learn later that people actually owned cottages. I had no idea. And I'll say that, you know, we didn't go out to dinner, ever. Maybe a Sunday, if I got some good grades, to celebrate, but we'd come home from church to my grandmother's cooking. So, life was very simple. So, it was very important to me that, to fulfill my grandparent's legacy. They left behind a country that was overtaken with Communism, and they had to choose between staying in Europe, travelling to the US, Australia, Canada. And because my grandmother had sisters here, under the Family Reunification Plan, they came here, and then they set up a, a bitter battle between the sisters on who could accumulate real estate. But the way it was, the only way we could afford that is when they bought something, we lived in it, and then rented out the rooms.

Mike Van Soelen
Right.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
So, that's that was my upbringing. Living in a rooming house, frankly. And then when my mom remarried, we moved to Etobicoke, and it was lovely. And I had a I grew up in Markland Woods, and went to school there, and went off to university, and—when that formula still worked for our young people. But for me very much, when I think about what drives me as a person, and as a politician, it's to create fairness for people, an equal opportunity for everyone to succeed. Because I saw, we lived in a community, in a neighbourhood, that had people from everywhere, and everyone sat out on the porch and talked to each other each day, as everyone walked by, strolled by. And I think that the drive came from fulfilling the legacy for my grandparents. And never, you know—I wanted them to be proud of me, and they were very special people. And my grandfather taught me all about the Original Six teams—and I was his favourite grandson, and we watched hockey together. I was an only grandchild, obviously. So, that's, that was my life. And so, you know, what you see in the ads isn't accurate; it's far from it. And I hope we will have the opportunity—if they all donate—that we could put out our own ads and tell that story. But between us girls, right?

Mike Van Soelen
Yeah. Well, thanks, thanks for sharing that. And I mean, in part, you've described a simpler time, you know, when you were younger, and you talked, you know, about what you could afford or not afford. And certainly, affordability is just one of those themes that you can't avoid in politics today; you've you certainly touched on it in your remarks. You know, as you think of putting together the Ontario Liberal platform to go into the next election, affordability is, no doubt will be there. How, how do you think you can actually, as a provincial leader, help Ontarians?

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Yeah. So, there are many levers we can pull, and some we cannot—obviously, we have no influence on interest rates. But we do have influence over housing, and affordable housing. And the type of house, homes that are built; that young people, and young families, and new immigrants can afford. And that's why we've been spending some time talking about gentle density in neighbourhoods, willing to accept, accept more families. So, you know, whether there are four units in—a maximum of four stories, which often can be accomplished in two stories. Think about a semi-detached home with basement apartments, or a home with two doors and units on each side, and two levels, two storeys upstairs. Right now, in Ontario, three units are permitted, as of right; it's not a far stretch to go to four. So, that housing needs to be more affordable. People need more choice, daycare, childcare for young families needs to be affordable. Incentivizing retrofitting of homes so that they're conserve energy is also very important. Students grappling with tuition? Why not help them with OSAP, and maybe remove the, the tax, the provincial tax on OSAP, and make it more reachable for them—because there are so many barriers—so that you can be able to achieve, to access OSAP loans. So, there are many ways we can achieve it, if we think about it. There are many levers to pull, when you think about the daily life of families, and how we can help them. So, there are, are many tools and you've seen from our platform, and you will see, as we develop it further, what we intend to do.

Mike Van Soelen
Well, so the next question probably has an easy part and a hard part.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Okay.

Mike Van Soelen
The Carbon Tax.
The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Okay.

Mike Van Soelen
The, the easy part, I guess, is you know, you've, you've committed to not having the Carbon Tax as part of your platform, going into the next election. So, easy part. You know, what are you going to do to, of course, to help the environment, to, to address climate change, should you become premier? And hard part, second part: should there still be a, a federal government imposing a, a Carbon Tax? So, what would your message be there?

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
So, these are excellent questions, and let me say that the only reason that we have a Carbon Tax here in Ontario is because this government cancelled cap-and-trade, whether you agreed with it or not. So, we were automatically became subject to a Carbon Tax. That is the fatherhood of the Carbon Tax. I will say that making polluters pay, big manufacturers, is a more effective incentive to reduce emissions, than actually putting a tax on consumers. It's a much more effective way of changing behaviour, to ensure that those big polluters are, are, are penalized, that that they pay the tax. So, we have, as you know, a strategy going forward, where we have Mary-Margaret McMahon, who I saw is in the room today—Mary-Margaret, give us a, a wave, there she is. She's our climate change guru. And she has struck a panel of some experts, including Kathryn Bakos, and Vince Gasparro—who I think is in the room too, I think I saw Vince—and Cherise Burda, and a panel of excellent people, and Chris Ballard, Carol Mitchell; some wonderful, wonderful people. And they will come up with a plan and a platform for us that will address climate change, so that polluters are made to pay, however, consumers and families are not burdened.

I will say, there are lots of things that we can do. We know one of the greatest sources of emission for families, and for municipalities—speaking as a mayor—is the emissions from vehicles, whether it's transit transportation vehicles, we need to green our fleets, we need to invest more in in electric vehicles, building housing. There are so many levers that we can pull. We can invest in conservation, invest in, obviously, renew renewable resources, solar, wind, hydroelectric; so many levers we can pull, that Mary-Margaret's going to look with her panel, and guide us going forward on the plan that we will have, that will be part of our platform for the next election. But as I have said, I think it's more effective that polluters pay, but families and consumers do not. I think it's a more effective deterrent, and will help reduce emissions.

Mike Van Soelen
Right. You certainly addressed education in your remarks, and I think you made a case for it to be really key to our economic, economic future and, and to continue on the road of innovation, and growing this economy. The issue we see playing out right now, universities and colleges, in some ways, it's such a Gordian Knot; it includes economic pressures, you can overlay housing, immigration into that. You certainly said, you know, we need to fund our colleges. But if you could sort of expand on, you know, how do we deal with what seems so critical, but so hard to get, at the same time?

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Well, it's a question of setting the right priorities. And as I hope this talk, this dialogue this afternoon, has told you that ours are education and building the strong fundamentals. But in that, in that same in that same talk, I acknowledge that our colleges, universities, need to be better funded. Do you know that Ontario colleges and universities only receive 30 percent of their operating funding from the provincial government, whereas most other, other provinces receive 60 percent or more, from the provincial government? So, we need to fund them properly. They've been relying on foreign students, but they need to be funded more adequately. And with respect to some of the educators that are in the room, though, they're concerned about public education for our young, for our children. We need to have trained teachers, more of them, encourage them in the classroom, teaching assistants for those of our children that have special needs, or Autistic children that have needs. We need to have those teaching assistants, special education assistants in our classrooms. We need to cap the size of our classrooms, so our children can learn. I mean, I don't know how many of you have children—all of you, almost all of you, I assume—and I'm sure they have 35, 30, 35 children in their classroom. Very hard for teachers to teach, when we have so many children in the classroom. So, there are solutions. But you have to make education a priority, and you have to fund it appropriately.

QUESTION & ANSWER

Mike Van Soelen
Thanks. And thanks to people in the room and online for submitting your questions, and I'm trying, I'm trying to work them into what I'm, what I'm asking Bonnie. There's a bunch about housing, you know, and one of them is, one of the more controversial commitments with municipalities is around the three-year freeze in development fees. Is this something you would support, as premier?

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Freezing development fees? So, let's be honest. So, these are development charges—better known as—and this is money that municipalities need to invest in infrastructure, and transit, and transportation, to build communities. So, at the end of the day, if they are punitive, we have to look at how do we better fund municipalities. And maybe it's time to strike a new deal with municipalities, so they can receive long-term, sustainable funding, that doesn't rely on levers like development charges.

Mike Van Soelen
You certainly talked about the importance of the labour force. And I just wanted to touch on skilled trades—and I'm sure there's some people in this room who care a lot about it—we know there's pressures there to, to get the people, to build the infrastructure, and to move the economy in in the way that we want. Can you speak specifically to, to the skilled trades, and, and what we can do to do better, there, as a province?

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Well, absolutely. I mean, I've got to say, probably some of you here in this room, your parents looked at you and said, "Are you going to be a doctor, or a lawyer, an accountant, or an architect?" Those were your choices. You had to be a white-collar professional. But those aren't the highly-trained, highly-skilled jobs anymore. We need skilled labour to help us build the homes that we need to supply our families with, our young people. I've got three young, three, three children, as many of you know—and two of them are getting married this year. Can you believe it? In one year. Two of them. But they're all speaking to me about, you know, losing that dream of purchasing a home.

Mike Van Soelen
Yeah.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
We need skilled labour. I mean, I don't know what—I know what the teachers and the nurses are paid, for goodness sakes. Look at skilled labour. When was the last time you tried to hire a carpenter or an electrician? What was their hourly rate, and how long did you have to wait, until they were available? You know, I know there's a little slump in building of housing right now, largely because we don't have enough skilled labour in the workforce. And we need it. It's a great option for everyone, for newcomers, for women. We need more diversity in the trades. It's a very well-paying option for young people, and it has to be encouraged.

Mike Van Soelen
Wonderful. On the issue of—I want to go next to the decision around the seat in the legislature. So, you know, this is a this is a crowd that knows, knows this issue well. You decided not to run for the seat in Milton. How are you thinking about the legislature, how you're going to interact? How you're going to get better known in the province...

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Right.

Mike Van Soelen
...during this time?

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
So, I made a commitment when I was elected—and I think Sal mentioned it in his opening remarks—to travel the province, and to meet people in all the small towns, and all the rural communities, and all the Northern communities, and the Francophone communities. I want people to get to know me, that I'm not that person in those attack ads. They have to know me, and I have to build back trust with them, and with voters, and build back their confidence of voting for Liberal, voting for a Liberal again. And I say, people are starting to be very, very proud to say that they are a Liberal again, am I right? So, there's a lot of work on the ground to get to know people everywhere across the province. There are areas we used to hold that I want to go back to and say, "Tell me why you vote the way you do?" And you know, and I go to some of those small towns and I and I ask them, you know, what has their MP done for them lately? And they tell me that they feel neglected, and not respected, and isolated. And then I asked what investments have come to their towns as a result of the way they vote, and they look at me blankly, like, what were they supposed to receive? They're not sure. And clearly, the answer was nothing has come to them. So, it's very important to be out in the communities.

Now, it was a tough decision, because Milton was next door to Mississauga, and I'm very familiar with their issues, like that quarry we're trying to stop in the intermodal, and of course, all-day two-way GO Train service on, on the Milton line—because that train runs in the wrong direction, but don't get me going. So, it was a tough decision, because that was a good one for me. However, I thought, you know, I spoke with our President, Catherine McGarry, and some of the members of our of our executive council and team. And they said, "Bonnie, we want you out there, we want people to meet you, we want you meeting people, so you stay out, out in the field." Now, if a Mississauga seat came open, we could have another conversation...

Mike Van Soelen
All right. Noted.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
...but right now, I'll be out and about.

Mike Van Soelen
Well, you know, as, as a Conservative, you, you hear these commitments, and what I think of is what they'll cost. Of course, building up education, a worthy value, you know, getting the skilled trades, putting the infrastructure in place, getting our digital, digital and new economy going. All really important. But you also talked about these headwinds, these things that are outside of your, your capacity. But just how do you think about making sure the government can afford to, to live up these commitments? What?

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Well, it's very interesting because I've been thinking about what exactly the government is spending money on, other than gimmicks, and freezing, freezing the Gas Tax, and giving you back a rebate for your stickers, and making them so you don't have to pay for them. And that's really reducing the fiscal capacity. And I keep thinking, will people really miss that? Or is that money that could be better invested in education, in our healthcare system. You know, when I look at the size, 214 billion dollars, the largest budget ever on record, the largest spending budget on, on record, and achieves so little. There have actually been effective cuts to education and healthcare, so where is that money going? I ask you. It's a question of priorities, putting the money where it's needed: education, healthcare, climate change, and building housing, and creating more affordability for families.

Mike Van Soelen
We have we have time for a few more questions. One of the ones I've gotten here from the crowd is: "How are you going to get the Gen Z involved in your campaign, and get them out to vote?"

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
That's a good one. It's a good one. So, you know, they are passionate about quite a few issues; housing, and climate change. So, we're going to get them involved by getting them on, you know, some of the panels that we create. Because climate change is the first one, but there will be one on housing, and there'll be another one on healthcare, education, et cetera. And we'll get them engaged in the creation of our policy, because I know they love to, I know they love that kind of dialogue, and doing the research. So, there are many levers we can pull. And we've got to get them engaged, because we need their ideas, and they think differently than we do—at least differently than I do; I live with three of them. So, we need them. We need their energy, their ideas, and, and just the way they think, you know—they have a different take on things. And so, you know, they do more on their phone in half a minute than it takes me to do on a laptop in a day, right? So, we need them. We'll get them engaged.

Mike Van Soelen
Perfect. I'd be remiss if I didn't ask about healthcare; you've touched on it a little bit. From the floor: "What's your vision for the future of Ontario's healthcare system? And specifically, do you see opportunities to enhance system integration and innovation?"

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Well, absolutely, innovation is key to all of this, to help reduce costs, in fact, of [indiscernible]—because I don't think community safety well-being will come up either. But certainly, innovation is critical to that, as well. You know that emergency rooms closed over 1200 times last year? That's, it is shameful. It really is. We need more doctors, we need more nurses. And with the, with the hospitals are relying on outside agencies to provide their nursing staff, because we're not paying people properly. You know that our nurses are paid somewhere between 35 and 50 dollars per hour; but when you bring in a nurse from an agency, they're paid between, well, they can be paid 75 or 100, or north of 100 dollars, depending on where they are. We need to wean that reliance and invest in our people, not cap them at a one percent increase, and recruit more of them. Because what we saw in the pandemic, and they're all overworked, overburdened, overtaxed, working in the healthcare system. They care about people, they care about care. They want to provide the best care, but they're not able to. They're run off their feet, they get frustrated, and they leave the profession, only to miss it, and come back, and work half as much for double the pay, if they sign up with an agency rather than our hospitals.

Now, what I see is a deliberate attempt to starve our education system and our healthcare system, to make way for privatization. And I think—I don't know if you agree with me—I believe in a very strong, publicly-funded, universal healthcare system. And this movement towards a deliberate starving of the system, to break it; the reliance on private medicine, and nursing agencies, and outside clinics, where you have to show your credit card, rather than your OHIP Card. This must stop. This must stop. This is inequitable, it's unfair, and we want access for treatment to everyone. I've seen John Fraser is here—there he is, in the back—how many times has he showed his credit cards in the legislature, saying, "Premier, which card do I pay with? The Green Health Card, or the Green Credit card? Which one is it today?" Because it's that movement towards privatization that has to stop.

Mike Van Soelen
Great. Two more questions. There are a few just about some of the most vulnerable in society. There's a question about homelessness, and there's also question on Ontario Works, and whether that couldn't be indexed to inflation in some way. But just to open the floor to you to talk about some of the most vulnerable in society.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
So, the most vulnerable in our communities really need our help. And you know, the level homeless situation is getting worse, not better. And what we see is asylum seekers, who have come to our, our doorsteps, are displacing homeless people in our shelters that used to be at five percent, asylum seekers. And now, they're over 70 percent, and so, they have nowhere to go. We need a housing-first policy, to create more homes that are affordable for middle-class families, but deeply subsidized for people who need it. And we need a plan, a program, a wrap, with wrap-around treatment, and programs for homeless, or people addicted, and have mental health issues and addiction issues. We need more investment in those areas. These are areas that have also been downloaded to the municipalities. And we don't have—"We," oh, I shouldn't say that anymore—municipalities do not have an ability to cope with those items, with those issues. They're very serious issues that require a plan, a coordinated plan among all municipalities, funded by the provincial government, for wrap-around treatments for people who are homeless, people who have mental health issues, people who have substance abuse issues. When I look at the North, the level of suicide, or the level of, of overdose is, is just simply wrong and immoral, and something has to be done about it. So, this is something that's very important. But I, I would I would be remiss if I didn't say I would have loved to have seen the results of the Universal Basic Income Program. I'm very sorry that that was cancelled. I would like to have seen how that played out. I, I would have not—[Applause] thank you—and I'll acknowledge that we need to do more for the most vulnerable, and I think we're on record as saying we would double ODSP.

Mike Van Soelen
When I, when I have the privilege of doing media training with people, I warn them about answering hypothetical questions.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Okay, I'll be cautious.

Mike Van Soelen
All the same, I will ask you, if you were premier today, and you could wave a wand and change one thing, and make life a little bit better and easier for, for Ontarians, what would you do?

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
It would be healthcare and education combined. It, you know, it's respect for the people who give us care. The people who are in this room that give—I see Sue back there—give my mother care, who's 88, and wants to age with dignity in her own home. It's our young people who have—need the opportunity to learn in an environment that's fair and equitable to them, not with 35 others. And our, our more our, our special needs kids, they should be treated fairly, and have the attention and the care that they need, as well. But our hospitals. When we need care, there should be care available. Not, as I mentioned, the young father who has to go far away to the ER, with a sick and fussy baby, that has to wait 18 to 24 hours for treatment. It's unacceptable, it's deplorable and it's immoral, and this has to change.

Mike Van Soelen
On, on behalf of the Empire Club of Canada, thanks so much for being so honest and frank with us.

The Hon. Bonnie Crombie
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

Sal Rabbani
Thank you, Mike and Bonnie. I'd now like to welcome to the stage, Tim Hudak, the CEO of OREA, for the appreciation remarks. Tim.

Note of Appreciation by Tim Hudak, CEO, OREA
Well, thank you very much Sal. I want to say to you, as a chair of the Empire Club, and the hard-working team, and Mike Van Soelen, an awesome job on the questions here today. Empire Club, thank you for your leadership. And before I thank Ontario Liberal Leader Bonnie Crombie, I, I want to give a shout out to a number of my colleagues, I had the honour of sitting with the Ontario legislature. Former MPP's George Smitherman, and Eric Hoskins, Catherine McGarry, Lauren Aldi (ph), Mitzi Hunter, and I know that Mary-Margaret McMahon and Stephanie Bowman are here. I want to thank them so much for their incredible service to the province of Ontario—although, I can't believe I said a nice thing to George Smitherman after what he did to me and back in the day. And John Fraser, too. Being an Opposition Party Leader, is a demanding job. It can be thankless, it can be lonely. And when you rise to the occasion to, to lead a great party as a interim leader, John Fraser, we will owe you a huge debt of gratitude.

Yeah, it's a real honour to be here on, as the CEO of the Ontario Real Estate Association, and President Rick Kenzie, or Meredith Kennedy, one of our board members. And I will say, Leader Crombie, candidate for you, hopefully, someday—our board member Lisa Patel, I think, has got a great shot. So, we'd be behind her for sure. On behalf of the team, and the 100,000 Ontario Realtors who are working hard every day in their home community, and at Queens Park, to help hard working families get a great place to call home, it's a terrific honour to be here to thank you. I've, I've had the, actually, the pleasure of working with Leader Crombie and a number of capacities over the years, from my early days as an MPP, sitting across my desk from you, when you worked in the insurance sector; your time as a Member of Parliament, of course, as Mayor of Mississauga. And I remember my times as a Leader of an Opposition Party, and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything in the world—okay, maybe winning; I would, I would take that as a as a trade off—but I, I remember days those days, as an Opposition Leader, right? From, from one day trying to corral your caucus into a single coherent position. And I will tell you that caucus, they're always with you, win or tie. I remember fondly the dealing with our friends in the media, how polite and forgiving they are, in the warm embrace of the media scrum. And of course, running from meeting with stakeholder group to stakeholder group, who are pressuring you to immediately and vociferously endorse their latest policy proposal. Although on Tuesday, when we meet, Leader Crombie, I would encourage you to vociferously and immediately endorse our ideas at OREA.

Folks, the art of Opposition leadership has defined that that balance between what you're there to do, hold the government to account, but also, to lay out your vision for the province, and the bright future you want to build for the province of Ontario. Leader Crombie struck a very positive tone here today. You laid out what motivates you as a leader, the importance of skilled trades, a highly-trained workforce, because you never know what's going to come around the corner. You spoke about your commitment to the principle of fairness, and a very moving story about your grandparents, your mom coming from Poland, and you'd have the chance, now, to build on, on their love and affection for the new country.

And appreciate what you've done, Dr. Shamji (ph), as well, in talking about how to help more people get the keys to a great place to call home, including building more homes on existing properties, as of right across the province of Ontario, as you spoke with Mike here today. Ontario Realtors agree, it, it makes sense. Look, if you could tear down a, a wartime bungalow in in Richmond Hill, or Scarborough, or, or Saint Catherine's, and put up a four story monstrosity, that's your right—property owner, she's worked hard for her money, she's providing for her family. But if you try to do the same thing and, and build a semi-detached, or a triplex, or four homes on a lot as a four-plex, you go through this regulatory ringer. People should have an equal ability to either build up, or build more homes, for first time home buyers, young families across our province. We at the Ontario Real Estate Association believe that bold action builds homes, and eliminating exclusionary zoning is an essential key to unlocking affordable home ownership for so many Ontario families, particularly in urban areas. So, with that, Leader Crombie, I thank you so much for your commitment to the province, and sharing your very positive vision of the bright future of the province of Ontario. Thank you.

Concluding Remarks by Sal Rabbani
Thank you, Tim. And thanks again to all our sponsors for their support, and everyone joining us today in person or online. As a club of record, all Empire Club of Canada events are available to watch and listen to on demand on our website. The recording of this event will be available shortly, and everyone registered will receive an e-mail with the link.

Join us on April 12th for a vital discussion on mental health in the workplace. Let's explore its profound impact on our daily lives; the collective strides we can take towards fostering a healthier environment together, led by the esteemed Honourable Madam Justice Michelle O'Bonsawin.

Thank you for your participation and support. Good afternoon. This meeting is now adjourned.