Green Ribbon Panel Report Launch: Preserving Progress and Maintaining Momentum

May 7, 2024

The Empire Club of Canada Presents

Green Ribbon Panel Report Launch: Preserving Progress & Maintaining Momentum

Chairman: Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada

Moderator
Jessica Linthorne, Interim CEO, Nuclear Innovation Institute

Distinguished Guest Speakers
Andrew Downie, Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Environment, Conservation, and Parks
George Cook, Chair of the Board, OMERS Administrative Corporation
James Scongack, Chair, Green Ribbon Panel
Annesley Wallace, EVP, Strategy, Corporate Development; President, Power and Energy Solutions, TC Energy

Head Table Guests
Mei Burgin, CEO-in-Residence & Managing Partner, Regenerative Capital Group
Michael Kobzar, National Director of Sales, Transmission Systems, Siemens Energy Canada, Director, Empire Club of Canada
Victoria Mancinelli, Director Of Public Relations, Communications, Marketing, LiUNA
Antoinette Tummillo, President, Antoinette Tummillo & Associates Inc., Past President & Director, Empire Club of Canada

Introduction
It is a great honour for me to be here at the Empire Club of Canada today, which is arguably the most famous and historically relevant speaker’s podium to have ever existed in Canada. It has offered its podium to such international luminaries as Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan, Audrey Hepburn, the Dalai Lama, Indira Gandhi, and closer to home, from Pierre Trudeau to Justin Trudeau; literally generations of our great nation's leaders, alongside with those of the world's top international diplomats, heads of state, and business and thought leaders.

It is a real honour and distinct privilege to be invited to speak to the Empire Club of Canada, which has been welcoming international diplomats, leaders in business, and in science, and in politics. When they stand at that podium, they speak not only to the entire country, but they can speak to the entire world.

Welcome Address by Sal Rabbani, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Empire Club of Canada, the country's go-to forum for conversations that matter, for 120 years now.

To formally begin this afternoon, I want to acknowledge that we are gathering today on the traditional and treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit, and the homelands of the Anishinaabeg, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat Peoples. We encourage everyone to learn more about the Traditional Territory on which you work and live. This is an essential first step to Reconciliation, and each and every one of us has a role to play.

The Empire Club of Canada is a not-for-profit organization, and would like to recognize our sponsors, who generously support the club and make these events possible and complementary for our online viewers to attend. Thank you to our Lead Event Sponsors OMERS and TC Energy, and thank you to our VIP Reception Sponsors, LiUNA and the Power Workers Union. And I'd like to thank our Supporting Sponsor, The Society of United Professionals. Lastly, thank you to our Season Sponsors, Amazon Web Services, Bruce Power and Hydro One.

As always, we accept questions from the audience for our speakers, and you can undertake to scan that QR code found in your program booklet. I encourage you all to participate in the discussion.

In an accelerating climate change context, increasing our clean energy supply, our storage capacity, and also finding ways to continue to balance the energy mix to ensure our future energy is as clean as possible is an all-hands-on-deck effort. For example, the total cost of Canada's clean electricity transformation was estimated at between 1.1 to 1.7 trillion, nearly the size of the entire Canadian economy in 2023. And will require the country to grow its annual electricity investments by 2.5 times annually for a quarter of a century. In Ontario, the provincial government indicated that 400 billion of investment was needed to support the electricity grid between now and 2050. This is massive. No single entity can tackle these monumental challenges on its own. So, I'd like to salute the presence of Jim Scongack, the Chair of the Green Ribbon Panel, and Andrew Downie, Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Environment, Conservation and Parks, and Jessica Linthorne, Interim Chief Executive Officer for the Canadian—or sorry, for the Nuclear Innovation Institute, and moderator for today's discussion. I'd also like to salute the work of the Green Ribbon Panel, a collection of environmental and economic leaders from across Canada, who have come together to mobilize business and civic leaders, to participate in climate and economic policy discussions, and provide a forum for sharing ideas, lessons, and best practices.

In 2022, the Green Ribbon Panel released the report, "More Clean Power: How Ontario Can Build a Clean Economy That Works." And a lot has happened since 2022. So today, we're in a prime position to hear first-hand about these developments, and what more needs to get done, as the Green Ribbon Panel is launching its latest report, "Preserving Progress: and Maintaining Momentum." The discussion is extremely timely and important, so there are only two things I'd like to mention: one is the urgency to act. You know, climate is one of the most urgent challenges we're facing, and I think it's really important to have this conversation. The second thing is, is potential. Yes, the challenge is monumental, but so is the potential to unlock opportunities. We have incredible potential and innovation, especially here in Ontario. Beyond our well-known advantages—which will be highlighted—as a fervent supporter of small and medium sized businesses, I wonder if there's a bigger role that these businesses can play in the transformative, huge projects for a cleaner economy. There's a lot of potential to be unlocked, when it comes to innovation and sustainable technologies, and the role in the transition to a circular, carbon-zero, clean energy economy. So, looking forward to the conversation, and the insights from the Green Ribbon Panel's Report lunch. And I'd like to thank you all for being a part of the Empire Club community. So, again, please engage in the discussion, ask questions, and put some ideas forward. This is a very important conversation about our collective future, and ensuring that we build a prosperous, clean and sustainable province and country for us all. I'd now like to take this opportunity to introduce Andrew Downie, Parliamentary Assistant, serving under Minister of Environment Conservation and Parks. Andrew plays a vital role in supporting efforts to address pressing environmental challenges, and promote conservation initiatives. Welcome, Andrew.

Andrew Downie, Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Environment, Conservation, and Parks
Thank you very much, Sal, and it's truly a privilege to be here at the Empire Club today, and to witness the, the incredible work of the Green Ribbon Panel; and really, I look forward to the update to the report on how Ontario can build the clean economy that truly works. Our government shares the Green Ribbon Panel's opinion that, thanks to Ontario's clean power grid—including, of course, nuclear power—we are uniquely positioned to attract new businesses, and investment in the green economy. And over the past few years, that's exactly what our government has been doing. We've been working with industry, and other groups, to make Ontario the best place to do business. Keeping taxes low, eliminating red tape, and investing in our workers. And our efforts have truly been working. Over the last three years, Ontario created almost 900,000 net new jobs; this is the fastest growth on record.

And to give you a better idea of how we've been able to attract new investments and build up our green economy, a great example is what's happening with auto investments in the province. Ontario, it was just two weeks ago, Premier Ford joined Honda Canada in Alliston, and announced a historic investment of approximately 15 billion dollars, to create Canada's first comprehensive electric vehicle supply chain. They will build four new manufacturing plants in Ontario, including a world-class electric vehicle assembly plant, and a standalone battery manufacturing plant. And once fully operational in 2028, the new assembly plant will produce up to 240,000 electric vehicles each and every year. This is just one of many investments we have seen in the province. In fact, in the past three years, Ontario has attracted over 43 billion dollars in new investments in vehicle manufacturing, and the EV battery supply chain. One of those investments is literally in my riding back home in Windsor–Tecumseh, the new NextStar Energy EV Battery plant, which has been transformative for our community, has brought hope and optimism to a community that truly, truly needed it. And so, delighted to see the Government Ontario play a huge role in securing that plant.

These EV's could be made with Ontario steel, and will soon be much cleaner, powered by Ontario's clean energy grid. We're seeing historic investments there, too. Investments that are truly good for the environment. In Hamilton, ArcelorMittal Dofasco is making a 1.8 billion-dollar investment in new electric low emission technology. I remember driving down Nicola Tesla Parkway a few weeks ago and seeing the scale of that operation, it's truly incredible what we have here in the province. And in Sault Ste. Marie, Algoma Steel is investing 700 million dollars in a low emission, electric arc furnace. Combined, these actions will reduce Ontario's greenhouse gas emissions by around 6,000,000 tonnes—that's annually, by 2030—while significantly improving local air quality. These investments are good for the economy, while also being good for the environment. And that's just one of many investments that we are seeing in our green economy, as companies looking to reduce their carbon footprint, take advantage of our clean energy grid, and work towards net-zero, they flock to Ontario.

So, our government welcomes today's update on the Green Ribbon Panel's 2022 report, which highlights the progress that we've made in Ontario, and the work underway to help guide Ontario to transition to a clean economy. And we've been working very hard to achieve that goal. In July of last year, we released the Powering Ontario's Growth Plan—in fact, that was also announced in my neck of the woods, with Minister Smith—it outlines the actions the province is taking to develop reliable, low-cost, and clean power, to meet the increasing demand for electricity; demand that will be driven by strong economic growth, and electrification, through the 2030's and 2040's. These actions will provide Ontario families and industries with the reliable, low cost, and clean power that they need, as well as powering our future.

The plan outlines a number of actions to meet future needs, including building three additional Small Modular Reactors, for a total of four SMR's at the Darlington nuclear site, as well as pre-development work with Bruce Power, to cite the first large—scale nuclear build in more than three decades. This planning will build on Ontario's clean electricity advantage, ensuring the province has the power to maintain its position as a leader in job creation, and a magnet for industries of the future. Our government looks forward to continuing to work with the Green Ribbon Panel, as well as our other stakeholders across the province, to continue to promote Ontario's clean electricity system. And today's progress report states the panel recognizes that achieving the dual goal of tackling climate change, and spurring economic growth, is challenging. And while I agree, I also know that Ontario is up for this challenge, and that together, we can continue to advance practical solutions, that powers Ontario with affordable, safe, and clean energy, while protecting our environment, and building a better Ontario for everyone. And with that, I'd like to invite George Cook, Chair of the Board of Directors of OMERS Administrative Corporation to say a few words. Thank you very, very much.

George Cook, Chair of the Board, OMERS Administrative Corporation
Good afternoon. It's been almost a quarter of a century since I served as president of the Empire Club, in 1999; let me remind you, the challenging topic of that day was year 2000 preparedness. I also sat, at that point in my life, as a director of Atomic Energy Canada, and not surprisingly, the question that everybody was asking was, "Are we prepared?" The same question is relevant today, although today's challenge is, in my view, far more daunting. The Green Ribbon Panel, which our guest speaker chairs, is the unique panel of business, labour, industry, and not-for-profit organizations, that has played an effective role in shaping key public policy decisions at the federal and provincial level, since 2020. Continuing this constructive unified approach will be essential going forward.

Our speaker today is James Scongack, Executive Vice President, Operational Services and Chief Development Officer at Bruce Power. In this role, James is responsible for a wide range of operational capital project services at the world's largest operating nuclear facility, and Canada's largest private sector electricity infrastructure project. He also has responsibility for nuclear regulatory affairs, external affairs, environment, sustainability, asset dispatch, medical isotopes and business development. OMERS largest investment worldwide is in Bruce Power. Other Ontario energy sector investments include Alectra, and NextBridge. We are pleased to support today's event, which marks the third release by the Green Ribbon Panel since 2020. As Ontario works to balance the need for energy security, affordability, and decarbonization, it is critical that we find practical solutions that policy-makers can implement. It is my honour to welcome James to the podium at the Empire Club today, to share the next chapter of his story.

James Scongack, Chair of the Green Ribbon Panel
Great. Well, thank you very much George for that, that kind introduction—and, and George, I don't know if when you were president of the Empire Club, if they played U2 every time somebody comes up on stage, but I just feel like a rock star coming up here, when they play that. I just received an e-mail just before I came up here that—firstly, it's great to see everybody here today; I appreciate everybody taking the time out of your schedules to be here, and also the number of people that are watching this live. This is obviously the launch of something, and, and all of the partners—who I'll talk about in a in a few minutes here—it's, this is really the launch of a very important message that we need to drive through the next six months. But what was most heartening for me, before I came up here, somebody sent me an e-mail and said, "This is being streamed on the Bruce A and B cafeterias." Which is good, but we do not want to be holding up the outage at Bruce B right now—so, this is recorded later. But anyways, I want to say hi to all our friends at, at Bruce Power, and I really want to start with that, really before we get into the green Ribbon Panel Report. Because it's very easy for people like me, folks in this room, to come together and, and talk about the energy transition, and what we need to do. But every single day, in the province of Ontario, there's thousands of men and women from all over Ontario, that maintain a safe, reliable, electricity system. And so, before we talk about the future, let's take a minute, and recognize those individuals for, for what they do every single day.

It's, it's a real privilege for me to have chaired the Green Ribbon Panel since, since 2020. And really, what's unique—and George talked about this—about the Green Ribbon Panel is the fact that it's diverse, it's about business, labour, the industry, not-for-profit groups, industry experts coming together to give government practical advice. In this space, it's very easy to blue sky, and what's unique about the work of the Green Ribbon Panel is that we've given specific, actionable recommendations to government. But most importantly—and George talked about his, his, history and his tenure at Ontario Hydro—as I reflect on this report, I sort of think about myself, and the privilege that I've had to grow up in Ontario. You know, the Warden of Bruce County is in the back, there, you know, our, our site, the Bruce Power site, is located in Bruce County. I say it is the most beautiful place on Earth, 10 months of the year. So, thank you for being here, Warden.

But if I think about Ontario—which I think is the greatest province, and the greatest country in the world—the reason why we have the standard of living that we have here in Ontario is because a lot of the infrastructure, our schools, our hospitals, our bridges, our subways, our power plants, you name it, that was really built out in Ontario in the 1960's, and the 1970's, and the 1980's. And because of that, my generation, and my daughter's generation, will have a great standard of living. But we have to recognize that we just can't rely on the infrastructure of the past; we have to invest in the future. So, what we do today is not just about what we need to do tomorrow, it's really about the Ontario that we want for, for generations to come. So, that's our responsibility. We're very fortunate and blessed to live in this province.

The other thing that's unique about today—and I want to recognize Jeff Beach from the Asthma Society of Canada—today is World Asthma Day; 317 Canadians today will be diagnosed with asthma. And one of the greatest achievements Ontario has been successful at delivering on was the phase-out of coal. Because of the phase-out of coal, oftentimes we talk about it from an electricity policy perspective, but we forget, the phase-out of coal in Ontario, not only did it make, make, deliver an emissions-free electricity source for the province of Ontario, it's actually saved lives. Those 317 people who will be diagnosed with asthma today will be able to breathe easier when they go to work, when they go to school, when they go to their kid's soccer game, because of the work we did. They'll be able to breathe easier, they won't be admitted into the emergency room because of a, a smog day, because we're burning coal plants. So, we should never forget the people in all of this. Because it's people that make this happen, but it's also people that we are working to serve.

I want to just spend a few minutes and, and walk through some of the recommendations. But before I do that, I do want to recognize the organizations from the Green Ribbon Panel, both here in person today, but also, broadcasted throughout Ontario. The Green Ribbon Panel consists of Asthma Canada—I see Jeff Beach is here—the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, who are broadcasting this to their annual conference in Mississauga this afternoon, the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, the Council of the Great Lakes Region, the Hydrogen Business Council, the Nuclear Innovation Institute, Plug'n Drive Canada, Pollution Probe, the Power Workers Union, the Society of Energy Professionals, and the County of Bruce. This report, called "Preserving Progress and Maintaining Momentum," is really about what the Parliamentary Secretary talked about. It's about holding ourselves to account on the, the recommendations that we put out in 2020 and 2022; but more importantly, building on where we are, to ensure that we're giving our policymakers those executable next steps, when it comes to tackling the challenges in front of us. But just before I move on, there's one individual in the room I specifically want to recognize, and if he could just stand up—he's a very shy guy, but he actually does all the work, it's not me and the rest of the panel—Chad Richards, from the Nuclear Innovation Institute. Give Chad a, a round of applause. Thank you, Chad.

So, I really want to summarize the report—and, and as noted earlier, we're really interested in questions, in the dialogue—but there's really five key themes in the report that we're really trying to hit home. And this is not a one-and-done. The reason why the Green Ribbon Panel has been successful is because, coming out of these launches, there's a comprehensive six-month campaign to make sure this is embedded with policymakers. But the first theme is really around existing assets. You know, sometimes we forget about what we have, and how important it is what we have. In the province of Ontario today, right now, 80 to 85 percent of the electricity that we count on comes from existing nuclear assets at Darlington, Pickering, and Bruce, and our hard hydroelectric fleet; 80 to 85 percent. If you look at the nuclear fleet, 65 percent of the nuclear fleet that is running today, that we are just counting on to be there 10, 20, 30, 40 years from now, 65 percent is yet to be refurbished or replaced. So, one of the consistent themes that we've had for the last four years—and it will continue—is on optimizing existing assets. It's very difficult to build the future, without that base secured. We've demonstrated the ability to do that, but that is job number one. And so, while it's great to, to be looking at the new opportunities—and we'll talk about what those are—in terms of prioritizing government policy tools, funding mechanisms, skilled trades, job one is the existing assets. There is nothing from a time perspective, from a cost perspective, or from a reliability perspective, that will ever outgrow or be better than moving forward with those existing assets.

The second area—and we talked a lot about this as a panel last week, with the Canadian Building Trades in Ottawa—is our provincial and federal governments have both made significant commitments to streamlining regulatory process. And we encourage that, and we think that is important. But one of the consistent themes of the Green Ribbon Panel—and we're going to really hammer on this for the next six months—is what culture are we instilling in our regulatory agencies and in government to expedite these projects? You can have the most efficient process in the world, but the way that process is executed and implemented is a cultural focus. And so, one of the things you'll see in our, our recommendations going forward—and this has received a lot of interest in Ottawa, and I do credit the Ford government here in Ontario with, with really seizing this—is being very clear between two governments—and you've seen that in the case of the Bruce Project, and other projects—of identifying the top priority, targeted, clean energy projects, that are in the national interest. That is absolutely critical. When government set priorities, when they align people on what those priorities are and what is most important, you can drive that cross-functional collaboration in government. And without that, it doesn't matter how well you write down a process, it's the execution of that process that is important. And there's a commitment to that, but we need to see that clearly identified going forward.

The third area is what we call no regret actions. This is something you've heard the IESO talk a lot about in Ontario, in terms of pathways to decarbonization, Powering Ontario's Growth, and Minister Smith. But you know, I often say, if you're going to build a house today, if you, if you go with your with your partner and your family, and you want to sign, sign to build a house. Nobody is building a house, unless the zoning is complete, the design is complete, and I know the cost. So, why would we expect an investor to go and do that, and build a multi-billion-dollar infrastructure project? No regret actions, which have seen some progress over the course of the last year, need to be accelerated. Proponents need to be able to recover their money, to take projects to a shovel ready state. And that's not—a lot of people look at that there's risk in that, that if you that if you advance that and you don't proceed with a project, that you lose that money. And that is certainly a possibility. But think of the risk if we don't do it. Why would we start a multi-billion-dollar infrastructure project without having that? What is the thing that people always talk about on any electricity sector infrastructure project? The risk of cost overruns. We know how to mitigate that. It's tried, it's proven, it's proven at Bruce, it's proven at Darlington, Hydro One has proven it time and time again on large transmission infrastructure, and we need to make sure the entire sector in Ontario has access to that cost recovery. It will reduce cost, increase stability, and ultimately, get more built in the long run.

The fourth theme is really around Investment Tax Credits—and we could talk about this all day—this is an area where the federal government has come through, with a lot of our recommendations from 2020 and 2022. It was in the 2023 budget, it was reinforced in this budget, and now, we are at the stage where the implementation is really important. We need to get not only the language right, but the speed right. The only thing worse than not having an Investment Tax Credit is thinking you have an Investment Tax Credit; not knowing when it's going to be there. And so, there's a there's a broad commitment to, to seeing these ITC's come into place, and, and cross-functionally, having those in place by the end of the year is absolutely critical. But it's also important to recognize that some of the artificial deadlines on, on Investment Tax Credits, where they expire in 2035, may not be practical for many of these multi-year projects. So, one of the areas we're encouraging both governments to work together on with ITC's is removing this artificial cliff edge. That when projects qualify for an Investment Tax Credit, they qualify for the length of the project, in its entirety. It's also really important in this state, in this state that we're in with the US election—and you know, I don't want to open that up, that's a separate Empire Club speech from somebody else; you'll probably have a full house for that one—but is monitoring what happens in the US is so important. We need to remain agile.

One of the main reasons for Investment Tax Credits was to tackle the Inflation Reduction Act in the US. So, we need to remain nimble, and ensure that people who are investing here in Canada continue to have that investment certainty with Investment Tax Credits, and watch closely on that November election to determine what do we need to do to maintain all other things being equal with our investors. But Investment Tax Credits have been a game-changer. And one of the things that the panel really wanted us to underscore with Investment Tax Credits is, the term Investment Tax Credit suggests that an investor somehow gets a benefit from the tax credit; nothing could be further from the truth. I actually wish we could rename them—by the way, this is not a recommendation, so I don't want the panel to think I'm making things up on the go, here—you could actually call these Ratepayer Tax Credits, because 100 percent of these tax credits flow to ratepayers. And I was asked by the Canadian Building Trades last week, what do you think about the, the approach in the US, where they provide you a Production Tax Credit, where it reduces the price of power in terms of electricity generation every single day. And my argument is, is that's what the federal government has done here in Canada. An Investment Tax Credit reduces the capital cost of the project, which flows to the ratepayer, and the ratepayer permanently benefits from that Investment Tax Credit. So, yes, it's about getting things built. But it's also about not losing the key message here, that we know affordability is a significant issue for families and businesses. We hear that all the time. So, Investment Tax Credits are about ensuring that people have more affordable electricity, so it can be clean, we can get things built, but the affordability is critical.

And the, the fifth major theme before we wrap up is the focus on Indigenous community and municipal engagement. It's time for us in Ontario and Canada to stop incrementally dealing with capacity, when it comes to municipalities in Indigenous communities. By designating projects that are in the national interest, it will allow for the framework for our provincial government, through the IESO, the federal government, to create permanent funding mechanisms, so these impacted municipalities and First Nations communities can have consistent capacity. It's unfair to ask a municipality or a First Nations community to build up, and ramp up capacity, on a moment's notice. I always say, it's the closest level of government to people in our communities, our First Nations and our municipalities. And their resources are stretched. But unless they have the resources to enable energy growth and work with proponents, we will always be playing catch up.

And the final area—and this is one that is particularly important, and you'll see highlighted in the report—is related to an Indigenous Loan Guarantee Program. You've seen the province of Ontario come out with a one-billion-dollar program here in here in Ontario, the federal government, in their recent budget, came up with a five-billion-dollar Loan Guarantee Program. You can go to almost any Indigenous First Nations community across Canada that is near energy infrastructure, and what you will consistently see is a lack of equality, when it comes to the prosperity of those communities, relative to non Indigenous communities. And I know that's a general statement, but everywhere I've seen you, you believe that to be true. And so, if we are truly committed to Reconciliation, which is the right thing to do first and foremost, Reconciliation is about sharing in the prosperity of the future. We always say if we want the next 50 years to look different than the last 50 years, we need to do something different. The key recommendation we're focusing here on—these programs are great. But they need to be flexible, they need to allow Indigenous and First Nations communities the ability to structure their participation in these investments in a way that makes sense for their community. But most importantly, that the benefits flow to people in the community. That greater economic participation, it doesn't right the wrongs of the past. But what it does is it allows everybody to be able to share on what the opportunity is going forward. And yes, you can look at that as that's an enabler to get projects built. But I always believe if you do the right thing, the business, the, the right business moves tend to follow from that. So, I really want to thank the leaders in the First Nations Major Project Coalition—who I know are, are supportive of this event and, and, and participating virtually—for their leadership in pushing these programs that are now in place. It's our goal to make sure they're structured in a way that we can be successful together.

So, that's really all I had, in terms of my comments. There's a lot to summarize in there, and anybody that knows me, it is impossible to keep anything to 15 minutes. So, so, I hope I've done okay—you know, the trap door hasn't opened yet—but just in closing, I really want to say it's an absolute honour to be the chair of this Green Ribbon Panel. The organizations that are part of this panel, I think, represent the, the best in Canada, and the best in Ontario. And it's a really strong reflection of the things that we can come together and do. We can tackle these great things when we come together. And the most important thing we can provide our policymakers is consistent, unified advice. I always say, what is the to-do list you want, for the Prime Minister of Canada, and their Energy Minister, and the Premier of Ontario, and their Energy Minister. It's our job to give them that, to-do list, and if they do that to-do list, we will never let them down. So, many thanks very much for having me, and I look forward to the conversation.

Sal Rabbani
Thank you very much, James. I now would like to take this opportunity to invite Jessica Linthorne, Interim Chief Executive Officer, Nuclear Innovation Institute, to facilitate today's discussion. Jessica, welcome.

Jessica Linthorne, Interim CEO, Nuclear Innovation Institute
Okay. Thank you. Thanks, James. That was a wonderful overview.

James Scongack
Am I supposed to work the iPad, or you?

Jessica Linthorne
I, I think I'll work it, yeah.

James Scongack
Okay. There you go.

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah. I just want to make sure that my mic's working, okay? If I could get a nod?

James Scongack
Yeah, great.

Jessica Linthorne
Thank you. Happy World Asthma Day.

James Scongack
It's great, great day to recognize this—and I want to thank Jeff Beach and his, his team in Asthma Canada, who have been one of our greatest supporters since the start of the panel. But frankly, going back to the—Jeff, your predecessors, back to 2009, when we, were really looking at the refurbishment of the Bruce site and, and tying it to the phase-out of coal. So, it's an important day for asthma patients, for sure.

Jessica Linthorne
It is, absolutely, and I am one of those patients. So, early 2000, I had that problem, I had that respiratory emergency. And so, certainly, I'm very proud to be sitting with you on the Green Ribbon Panel, really proud of the work we're doing—thank you, Chad Richards, and other panel members. So, wonderful. I'd like to start by telling everybody a little bit about the Nuclear Innovation Institute. So, my name is Jessica Linthorne, and I am the interim CEO and a proud member of the Green Ribbon Panel. The Nuclear Innovation Institute is a not-for-profit, with a mission to build a unique voice for nuclear, to drive innovation, skill development, and to shape new opportunities to advance the industry. We work with our members on industry projects, government relations, original policy research, and community engagement, to celebrate nuclear energy as an integral part of our clean energy future. We're supported by our founding members, Bruce Power, AtkinsRéalis, BWXT, Cameco, ES Fox, Connectrix, and the Town of Saugeen Shores. We also have a growing list of supporters, including Accenture—and I saw Ken here today—ATS Automation, Framatome, and Sargent & Lundy. Part of our work as a connector and an industry voice means working collaboratively with Green Ribbon Panel, and other groups, to advance the conversation with the sector and beyond. And so, thank you for having me here today, James. Looking forward to this discussion. I do have a few questions to start, and then I will be looking at the iPad to catch some questions from the audience, as well. But James, the panel's work is anchored in four guiding principles. Two of those principles discussed the role of clean, reliable, and affordable energy, and the fundamental role of the electricity grid, and how Ontario has a competitive advantage due to the clean grid. Can you speak to the recommendation that the panel made in 2022 around Ontario's grid, specifically when it comes to optimizing existing assets, and greater energy storage deployment, and how the landscape has shifted since June of 2022?

James Scongack
It's a good question. And for obvious reasons, I'm very passionate about existing assets. And so, so, I think what, what I would say is that the, the first principle really coming out of the 2022 that the 2022 report was we, we, consistently saw an inconsistency in areas like tax policy, incentives, enablers, that was really prioritizing—and it, it was, it was necessary—but prioritizing new projects. And when you look at the work that is done to modernize and life-extend existing assets, whether they be, you know, the one-billion-dollar announcement from OPG, looking at the, the Beck Project, whether it be the, the Bruce Power Refurbishment Project, they are as, as material, if not more material, than some of the new generation. And so, having the policy harmonization that these existing assets are treated the same way is absolutely important.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative)

James Scongack
Because you could also have an unintended consequence of, of over incentivizing new construction and not optimizing the assets that we have. So, that's been a major change. I, I would also say that one of the, one of the major areas that there, there is a recognition on is the need for storage.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
So, as much as coal had very poor environmental attributes that we're all aware of and, and never want to go back to that, coal was a very flexible form of, of generation. And the, the, the more you decarbonize your grid, the more you need flexibility. We have flexibility in some of our nuclear assets, flexibility with storage. And so, there's, there has been a significant movement towards recognizing that the grid needs that flexibility.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
And to be frank, flexibility is very expensive.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
Because flexibility really means that you only need at certain times of the day, but you need it when you need it. And so, I always look at flexibility as an insurance policy. But it's necessary. We know the level of tolerance there would be in Ontario to, in the middle of August, having rolling blackouts in our hospitals and our, and—well, maybe not schools in August, unless you're, you know, in...

Jessica Linthorne
Summer school.

James Scongack
...summer school. But, but there'd be very low tolerance for that. And so, there's a recognition that there is a need to surgically focus on those, and ensure that we have the right reliability during those times, and making the long-term investments to, to make that happen.

Jessica Linthorne
That's great. So, you spoke a little bit of the Investment Tax Credits as part of your keynote, but I do have a question specific to. So, the Green Ribbon Panel is calling for the federal government to accelerate implementation, and extend the application of the proposed Investment Tax Credits, to align more closely with major project timelines. And we know that these ITC's are designed in response to some measures in the United States Inflation Reduction Act. Can you speak to the importance of getting these measures in place now, and getting them right, so that Canadian investment in clean energy and major projects can keep pace with those in the US?

James Scongack
So, the, the real key items on Investment Tax Credits is here is the, the rapid implementation on them is, is important. Because you have, we obviously have a, a minority government in in Ottawa right now. And, and as long as Investment Tax Credits are not finalized and the funds flowing, there is an inherent amount of uncertainty in the market.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
And obviously, there's a, there's a commitment to get that in place. But getting that in place sooner rather than later starts to provide that, that investment certainty. The other component is the, the artificial cap of the ITC's—and the Building Trades and the Green River Panel have been strong advocates of this—of 2035 also has some unintended consequences, where what it may do is create a dynamic of an over-acceleration of certain activities to meet the Investment Tax Credit threshold. And we know, working with our, our, our union and supplier partners, that there are challenges when it comes to building trade resources in Ontario and Canada.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
And so, what we want to do is make sure that that, that 2035 date is not artificially pulling work ahead, that is creating an unmanageable situation. And so, so that's, that's absolutely critical. And I would say that the final area is recognizing that there is a lot of complicated tax policy that goes into this...

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah.

James Scongack
...and I'm not going to pretend to, to, to, to speak to that. But it's really important that the, as the federal government is working to implement these, that we not let perfect be the enemy of the good...

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah.

James Scongack
...that we get in place the arrangements that we know work now, get those in place. And if there's more complicated arrangements with areas like Crown Corporations, those can follow.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
But, but especially, the private sector arrangements need to be accelerated and resolved quickly.

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah, that's great. And again, you know, I know you did speak to the Indigenous Loan Guarantee a little bit this morning, but, but I do want, I want to continue this conversation; these are really important points to, to continue to discuss. And so, we know that the build out of the clean energy systems that will support a clean energy economy will not succeed without policies that support participation of Indigenous communities in these projects. Thankfully, the federal government's most recent budget established a five-billion-dollar Indigenous Loan Guarantee Program. That said, the panel calls for an expeditious implementation, for flexible terms for this program, as well as calls for the establishment of funding to support capacity building. So, can you speak to the importance of getting these programs and policies in place soon, and on the right terms?

James Scongack
Yeah, absolutely. One of the, one of the areas that we've strongly advocated for here is that we line the, that we work to align the, the Indigenous Loan Guarantee Programs with the, the time frame to implement ITC's. So, coming out of that, you have a, an opportunity for long-lead capacity for these communities, you have the Investment Tax Credits in place, and you also have a, a flexible framework for the Indigenous Loan Guarantee Program.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
One of the other, one of the other elements that's a significant opportunity—I mentioned Ontario and in Canada, but also, British Columbia and Alberta have also adopted those—and what similar to what the Canada Infrastructure Bank and Ehren Cory's team there have done, which has been hugely successful, is the harmonization of Indigenous Loan Guarantee Programs between the federal and provincial government...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...is, is absolutely critical. But we need to enter 2025 knowing we have the Investment Tax Credits in place, we have the capacity mechanisms for Indigenous peoples and, and municipal governments, and we have the Indigenous Loan Guarantee Program that can align with that.

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah.

James Scongack
And then from our, from my, the panel's perspective and my perspective, you've really now left it to industry.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
You can't argue that the government hasn't done their bit...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...at that point. So, we're very close to that point where you know, Bruce County, we call it "The dog's caught the car"...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...right? We've, we've got everything we've asked for. And, and you really pass that now on to industry to, to execute those items. And I just, I just think that the ability to transform and, and you know, JP Gladu, who used to be the President and CEO of the Key Council for Aboriginal Business, says it much better than me. But JP always says—he's an Indigenous person himself—but he says, "I want my community to be managing wealth and not poverty."

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
And you know, what? We want that too.

Jessica Linthorne
Yes. Absolutely.

James Scongack
And, and what a greater opportunity to build the future of Canada, the future of Ontario, and have Indigenous and First Nations communities manage wealth and not poverty.

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah.

James Scongack
They deserve that.

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Thanks. That's very powerful. So, I just have one more question, and then I'll turn to the iPad for audience questions. There's a significant focus on the part of the federal government on pension investment in Canada, within the report. How does this fit into infrastructure challenge discussed?

James Scongack
Well, do we want to invite the OMERS board chair up to answer that? So, so yeah, it's, it's a good question —and I certainly don't want to speak for any pension plans in the room—but really, three things I'd, I'd leave you with, from the panel's perspective on that. The first is, is that we have some really strong examples here in Canada—that, that George Cook noted related to OMERS, but also other areas—where there is a massive amount of pension plan investment...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...in our electricity infrastructure. We just celebrated 20 years of TC Energy—I see Annesley Wallace here, and, and Bob's here, also from, from OMERS, and George—20 years of TC Energy and OMERS being in Bruce Power. When those two organizations came and invested in Bruce Power, our business plan was to have the site shut down by 2018.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
So, without that pension investment, we wouldn't have these medical isotopes, we wouldn't have coal-free Ontario, we wouldn't have Canada largest infrastructure project, we wouldn't have the kind of prosperity that we're, we're working in those communities. So, I would first thing I would say is, if we take it away from the talk and look at the action there, there's cases where that works. But that's, that, that's really about creating the right environment for those investments, versus—the other thing is, and you know, we have a lot of organized labour representatives on the, the Green Ribbon Panel, and we've talked about this pension investment issue is, we have to remember that somebody's pension, it's their money...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...it's not the government's money. Like, people work their entire careers for their pension.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
And so, if you are a pension trustee, whether it's in the building trade unions who all have their own pension trustees—I see LiUNA's here, Victoria Manzelli, they manage their own pension fund. They are managing that on behalf of those members; it's not some government funding program. And so, there is a fundamental obligation to make sure those folks are making the right investments. And I think if you set the right investment climate, with the things we're talking about, with ITC's, and these parts, I think you're just going to naturally see that...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...but it can't be a—because it's not the government's money to spend.

Jessica Linthorne
That's right.

James Scongack
That's, that's James's view of the world, and we talked about that a bit as a panel.

QUESTION & ANSWER

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative). Well, that's great. Wonderful. Well, thank you, thanks so much, James. I will dial in now to any questions from the group. So...

James Scongack
I think you may need the password on the....

Jessica Linthorne
I have mine. With the impact of climate change on hydroelectricity in countries like Colombia, is Ontario looking at this, and would this affect the way we plan for our future energy road map? That's an interesting question.

James Scongack
Yeah, t's a good question. So, I, I I'm not familiar with the, the examples in Colombia—would love to hear more about that. I think that...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...from a, from a hydroelectric perspective, it really fits in the category of, of existing assets. And so, I think there's, there's two elements when, when we looked at hydroelectric. The, the first is recognizing that what climate change potentially could, could risk with our hydroelectric assets is the predictability of using those assets during certain, certain periods of time. So, where you have run of the river Hydro...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...there is a certain unpredictability with that. So, so that is correct. What, what Ontario does not have that a lot of other jurisdictions have is the ability to control hydro...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...they often call that pump storage. And so, so pump storage, or battery storage, provides you the ability to deal with those periods of unpredictability...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...right? So, you know, we're, we're going to an environment where our customers, the public, and our families, and businesses, and schools, and hospitals, they want that reliability.

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah.

James Scongack
But we're moving to an environment where the sources we've selected as part of that generation mix, removing fossil fuels to a large, large extent, and other climate change impacts, are going to challenge that. And so, that's where you need that energy security piece with it, as well. What, what I would also say, though, is that one of the one of the areas that does not get a lot of focus is, when we talk about existing assets and the reliability of our nuclear fleet, our nuclear fleet here in Ontario, versus 20 years ago, almost has twice the level of reliability...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...that it did then. You know, if you measure the percentage of time that units are supposed to be online through strong maintenance practices, through good equipment—we call it equipment reliability in nuclear—the reliability of those nuclear units and the strength of that is important. Because what you want to be able to do is plan your maintenance outages in a way...

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah.

James Scongack
...where it's not during those periods of time. And obviously, you can do that with planned outages, but you can't do it with unplanned outages. So, what I would say is the continued reliability of the fleet is a is a major hedge against that, but you'll never eliminate the risk.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
But it's really about making sure you have the tools in the toolbox to best manage it.

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah, that's right. The Nuclear Innovation Institute, you'll recall, released a report called "Store of Value"...

James Scongack
That’s right.

Jessica Linthorne
...where we spoke to that. We spoke to the diversity and the requirement to have that clean grid, and what that looks like, certainly with nuclear as that base load, so I appreciate that. It doesn't look like I have any other questions. I'll just give it a minute here, in case others load.

James Scongack
Great. And maybe just while we're seeing if there's a last—usually, when I'm when I'm at Bruce Power in the plant, nobody wants to ask any questions. I say, "I'm not leaving until I get three," and it's kind of awkward for a minute. And then somebody's like, "Well, just ask him a question, we just want this to be done." So, I won't do that. But the, the one item I just want to flag maybe, just before I pass it over to you and, and wrap up is, what's really important about this report today is not so much just the launch today. Obviously this is the key part. It's really how we drive this with policymakers.

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
These reports, you know, what they can't be done is one-and-done, and go on the shelf. And I think a lot of credit to the Green Ribbon Panel for when we release these, driving them consistently, every single day. Because we want to be able to meet in 18 months for now, or maybe January 1st of 2025, and put a checkmark beside these ten recommendations...

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah.

James Scongack
...because they can all be achieved within that time frame and, and that's what really matters. You know, we're not going to be able to solve everything in the energy sector...

Jessica Linthorne
M'hm (affirmative).

James Scongack
...but you have to have respect for our policy makers. The volume of issues they have coming at them, breaking these decisions down into manageable pieces, while still keeping the North Star is really what this is all about.

Jessica Linthorne
Yeah. The to-do list.

James Scongack
Absolutely. Love the to-do list.

Jessica Linthorne
That's right.

James Scongack
I have it at home every weekend, and you know, I'm, I'm in the good books if I do it, and if I don't do it, I'm in the bad books—so, that goes for policymakers too.

Jessica Linthorne
Fabulous. Well, thank you very much, James.

James Scongack
Thanks, Jess.

Jessica Linthorne
I'll, I'll pause there. Thank you for the conversation, and thank you to the Empire Club for hosting us today.

Sal Rabbani
Thank you, Jessica and James. I would now like to invite Annesley Wallace, Executive Vice President, Strategy, Corporate Development and President Power and Energy Solutions at TC Energy, for the appreciation remarks.

Note of Appreciation by Annesley Wallace, EVP, Strategy, Corporate Development; President, Power and Energy Solutions, TC Energy
Thanks very much, Sal. And a huge thank you to James; it is always incredibly inspiring and motivating to hear you speak. Thank you to the Green Ribbon Panel for the innovative and positive policy recommendations. This panel provides an incredibly important platform for leaders across business, labour, industry, government, to come together and collaborate, and engage in important conversations about climate and energy policy. At TC Energy, we fully support the Green Ribbon Panel's recommendations, their priorities and vision for growing Ontario's economy, building critical clean energy projects, and addressing climate change. TC Energy is embracing the energy transition, and is making meaningful efforts that contribute to a lower carbon energy world. In Ontario, we hope to invest in growth opportunities that will help meet the province's future energy needs. TC Energy is investing in clean energy infrastructure, like the Ontario Pumped Storage Project that we're pursuing with the Saugeen Ojibway Nation, and through our continued investment in Bruce Power. We echo the panel's recommendations to advance existing projects already in development, prioritizing the advancement of long duration storage, projects that support the operability of a low-emission energy grid, while injecting billions of dollars of investment into Ontario's economy, through jobs and reliance on domestic supply chains. In closing, the insights shared today have been valuable. Through the collaboration of this panel, we believe these recommendations can be accelerated to their fullest potential. Thank you to all the attendees for participating in today's event, and your interest in engaging in these incredibly important discussions. With that, I'll hand it back to Sal.

Concluding Remarks by Sal Rabbani
Thank you Annesley, James, and Jessica, and thanks again to all our sponsors for their support, and everyone joining us today in person are online. As a club of record, all Empire Club of Canada events are available to watch and listen to on demand on our website. The recording of this event will be available shortly, and everyone registered will receive an e-mail with the link.

On Thursday, May 9th, join us and, and be here with OMERS President and CEO Blake Hutcheson, to hear about how this Canadian success story is positioned to deliver for its members in the years to come, and the positive impact that their pension promise is having on our provincial and national economies. On Tuesday, May the 14th, join us the with the Honourable Arif Virani, the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General of Canada, as he lays out the federal government's plan for legislating against harm and hate. Thank you all for your participation today. Appreciate you being here. Have a good afternoon. This meeting is now adjourned.