The Power of Black Female Leadership

July 7, 2020

The Empire Club of Canada Presents

The Power of Black Female Leadership

Chairman: Antoinette Tummillo, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada

Moderator
Gwen Chapman, Senior Advisor, Economic Empowerment, Social Cultural, and Anti-Black Racism Unit, City of Brampton

Distinguished Guest Speakers
The Honourable Zanana Akande, Public Service Educator, Policy Shaper, Community Advocate
The Honourable Dr. Jean Augustine, P.C., C.M., C.B.E., Grenadian Educational Administrator, Advocate for Social Justice, Politician
Dr. Beverley Salmon , Member of the Order of Ontario, 2016, Member of the Order of Canada, 2017, Community Activist
Monique Rudder, Partner, Tax and Legal Practice Lead, Deloitte Canada

Introduction
It is a great honour for me to be here at the Empire Club of Canada today, which is arguably the most famous and historically relevant speaker’s podium to have ever existed in Canada. It has offered its podium to such international luminaries as Winston Churchill, Ronald Reagan, Audrey Hepburn, the Dalai Lama, Indira Gandhi, and closer to home, from Pierre Trudeau to Justin Trudeau; literally generations of our great nation's leaders, alongside with those of the world's top international diplomats, heads of state, and business and thought leaders.

It is a real honour and distinct privilege to be invited to speak to the Empire Club of Canada, which has been welcoming international diplomats, leaders in business, and in science, and in politics. When they stand at that podium, they speak not only to the entire country, but they can speak to the entire world.

Welcome Address by Antoinette Tummillo, President, Board of Directors, Empire Club of Canada
Good afternoon, fellow directors, past presidents, members, and guests. Welcome to the 117th season of the Empire Club of Canada, and our first summer preseason in the club's history. My name is Antoinette, and I'm the newly minted president of the Empire Club and your host for today's virtual event, "The Power of Black Female Leadership." I now call this meeting to order.

We cannot do these events without the generous support of our sponsors. I want to thank our event sponsor, Deloitte, and also want to recognize our Event Partner, VVC, and livemeeting.ca for webcasting today's event. Today is my first official event at the Empire Club as president. And I feel absolutely humbled to be presenting these three amazing women, who have been trailblazers in the advancement for Black women in Canada. I get very emotional here; I'm Italian.

As the first Black female elected officials in all three levels of government, they have worked tirelessly to move the dial forward for women of all ages, backgrounds, and ethnicities. Their work, contributing to the mission of equality, has helped build strong foundations and encouraged diversity and change for generations to come. Today, we will shine a light on their journeys, how they've fought for equal rights, the necessary changes needed to create a conducive climate for equal rights, and the actions that made a difference.

With the COVID-19 pandemic and the fight for social justice at the forefront of our minds, our esteemed guests will also share their perspectives on these topics and their views on challenges Black women and People of Colour face, and what is being done to help. I feel honoured to welcome our incredible panel: first Black female Member of Parliament and Fairness Commissioner, Honourable Jean Augustine; first Black female Member of Provincial Parliament and Cabinet Minister, Honourable Zanana Akande; and first Black female City Councillor, Dr. Beverley Salmon.

You'll be hearing more about these ladies' significant accomplishments, and there are many, from our moderator, Gwen Chapman, who many of you know. She is the newly appointed Senior Advisor, Economic Empowerment, Social Cultural, and Anti-Black Racism Unit for the City of Brampton. She was a former Special Adviser, Youth Engagement for the City of Toronto, working with Mayor John Tory, and a TV producer and host.

Before I turn things over to Gwen, I just want to remind everyone that this is an interactive event. We encourage you to take advantage of the question box below and let us know what's on your mind and if you have any questions for the panellists. I now turn it over to you, Gwen.

Opening Remarks by Gwen Chapman, Senior Advisor, Economic Empowerment, Social Cultural, and Anti-Black Racism Unit, City of Brampton
Thank you so very much, Antoinette, for such a warm welcome. We're so pleased to have this opportunity to bring these three incredible ladies together. I first want to say, though, however, I want to thank Mayor Tory and also Mayor Patrick Brown, for taking up this initiative and developing an anti-Black racism unit in their city. So, with that, we're just gonna get right into a great conversation with these people, as we want to make sure that we have enough time for us to be able to answer your questions, and so forth.

Now, with everything that's been going on, it's interesting, life has forced us to look at ourselves, to think a little bit deeper about our purpose. You know, Martin Luther King had a saying. He said, "Life's most persistent question is, 'What are we doing for others?'" And I'm so pleased and honoured to have these three iconic women in my life. They've been a huge part of the community. There's never been a time where they have not said yes to come out to support the initiative that we had, which was to inspire young people. Jean Augustine has a very interesting story. She’s not Canadian, and so, she had a very...

The Honourable Dr. Jean Augustine, P.C., C.M., C.B.E., Grenadian Educational Administrator, Advocate for Social Justice, Politician
She's not Canadian?

Gwen Chapman
...she's not can Canadian-born. Sorry. She's not Canadian-born. She’s born on a beautiful island, Grenada, that’s in the Caribbean. She has some fond memories of this one special lady who actually was the catalyst, I guess, the person who encouraged her to be who she is today. So, Jean, tell us about your background and that special lady.

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
Thank you, Gwen, and I’m so very pleased to be with the Empire Club as they start out, and Antoinette, as you start out your tenure as president. I am Canadian; I’ve been here 60 years now—6-0—I came here on Saint Peter and Paul day, June the 29th, 1960. And so, this, looking back over these 60 years, also looking to the place of my birth, Happy Hill, Saint George’s, Grenada, with a grandmother who was wise, and, as someone would say, uneducated, in that she had no big titles after her name. But she grew up in the school of hard knocks and was able to share a lot of experiences with us young people.

Coming to Toronto in 1960 and looking at Toronto today, things are so different. In 1960, no Charter of Rights and Freedoms—that didn’t come until later—no Human Rights Commission with some of the abilities to accept complaints, no SIU, no police talking to the community, no school boards interacting with parents, no Landlord and Tenant Act to help people with housing and other issues, and on and on and on. And so, my struggle when I first came to Toronto was really finding those individuals who were here before me and those individuals who were in the struggle, joining with them, and being a real activist for this just society and this society we wanted to build for all of us who were now calling ourselves Canadians.

Gwen Chapman
Okay, well, thank you. Zanana, you have, also, a very interesting story. I remember you telling me lots of, lots of, lots of incidences regarding your comparison to Leonard Braithwaite, who was the first Black male Member of Provincial Parliament. I’ll allow you to just go ahead and share that story.

The Honourable Zanana Akande, Public Service Educator, Policy Shaper, Community Advocate
Well, I, unlike Jean, I was born here. I was born in the area to which all immigrants came at that time, and that was Kensington. And it was populated by people who had come from all parts of the world, either to improve their situation, or because of the war in their particular countries. And so, they came. And all around Spadina Avenue and down towards the Queen and King—Bev will remember these areas, there—this is where the immigrants and the children of immigrants lived. It was a great area, because we all shared something in common: we were getting out of Kensington one way or another. We were going to use the schools and every other opportunity we had to improve our situations.

My parents were both educators. My father—they had both taught in Barbados. My father was Barbadian and had graduated from Codrington College and had some supervisory role in the education system in Barbados. So, you can imagine how disappointed they were when they arrived and found that they were not allowed to teach.

And so, I became—and we all became—the, the students. And Leonard Braithwaite lived not far from us; he, too, was from Kensington. Being older than me, he, you know, proceeded well through school, did business courses in, in the States, had degrees, and became a lawyer. I got so tired of my parents saying, "If he can do it, you can do it." And I thought to myself, if I ever see Leonard when I'm where I'm going, I'm going to tell him about it—which I did, and we laughed. But it was a time when things were beginning to happen. I mean, there was Donald Moore, there was Harry Gary, and they were speaking out and they were truly improving things. And, you know, you got an education just from listening to what they said, and listening to my parents critique what they said. And so, my, my growth in Toronto is, is, is very much paralleled by the growth of immigrants. This is where we came; we went to Harvard Collegiate, and we decided we were going to do well so that we could, one way or another, improve our lot.

Gwen Chapman
Wonderful. Bev, why don't you tell us a little bit about your story?

Dr. Beverley Salmon, Member of the Order of Ontario, 2016, Member of the Order of Canada, 2017, Community Activist
Right. Well, I was born in Toronto. My father was from Jamaica. He had come to Canada to join the Canadian army, was sent to Siberia, then he returned, settled in Toronto, and married my mother, who was fourth-generation Canadian, Scottish-Irish. And we went to schools in North Toronto, which was not at all diverse. We grew up in a Toronto where there were signs on the beaches: "No dogs, Jews, or Coloureds allowed."

Gwen Chapman
Wow.

Dr. Beverley Salmon
Signs in our department stores: "Job available, Coloureds and Jews need not apply." And Bev will remember those days. In school, I was totally humiliated from kindergarten on. The only Black book that I was exposed to was "Little Black Sambo," which depicted Black people as monkeys swinging from trees. And then in high school, "Huckleberry Finn," where the N-word was used over 200 times. So, my schooling was not joyful at all.

When I became the first person to graduate from Wellesley Hospital School of Nursing. My husband, also born in Toronto—both his parents were Jamaican—and his time at school was very, very, I would say, unwelcome. He was channeled, streamed in other words, through commercial skill, because it was assumed that Blacks could not achieve, could not go to university. So, he had to go back to night school, get his university admissions, and became Canada's first Black surgeon to get his fellowship in general surgery.

Gwen Chapman
M'hm (affirmative).

Dr. Beverley Salmon
So, we later, we moved to Detroit, and that was a whole different experience. Every time we crossed the border, we were assumed to be an interracial couple. I was hauled off the bus at the border and almost denied entry with him into the U.S. And from then on, we learned that living in the States, we were a novelty for a landlord who was from the deep South. He said, "You people don't even know you're Black until you look in the mirror," because we didn't think that we could not do things. We thought we could go to a restaurant without checking to find out if we could be served. We thought we could buy a home, and then learned that Blacks couldn't get mortgage money. So, there were many issues that were immediately introduced, you know, and viewed in a very different way.

Gwen Chapman
That's amazing. What, what a story. You know, all three of you have been on this planet for over eight decades.

Dr. Beverley Salmon
Right.

Gwen Chapman
Yes?

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
Yeah.

Gwen Chapman
Before this whole pandemic, you all three were everywhere. And I find it just so inspiring and invigorating to see that you haven't said, "I'm retired," at 60-whatever, 70 years old. You are, you are moving and going on like you're still 35 years old. It's incredible. It's incredible, the energy that you have, and the passion, and the love that you have for the community, and we really feel that. I want you to know also that there are a lot of young ladies, a lot of young girls, a lot of people from the community watching this right now, and it is such a wonderful feeling to be together at this time, since we can't actually see and be with each other physically. But I'm feeling a sense of warmth, a sense of family. And I think as Canadians, isn't this what we're about? We're about trying to bring people together and to create that sense of family. I just wondered with you, Jean, how was it, what was it that you found most challenging as a vibrant young woman, mom, wife, and political leader? What were some of the, the challenges that you faced, and how did you overcome those challenges?

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
Well, Gwen, I think it's important for me to say that when I first landed in Toronto, I came on what was called the Canada Caribbean Domestic Scheme, where I had to work for one year in the home of a Canadian family.

Gwen Chapman
Okay.

Dr. Beverley Salmon
So, I learned several things from the very beginning. There were some things coming from an island where the leadership, the people with wealth, the things you see around you are Black faces and Black people. And then, finding out, as Zanana said, when you landed in this environment, that there were certain places and things that you can't do. And it wasn't just in terms of a Black person. I remember the woman I worked for, who was Jewish, that on days when she was going shopping, she put on her gloves, her best dress, or best whatever, because she said you get the service if you dress in a certain way, that you looked as though you can buy the item that you're looking at.

Gwen Chapman
Right.

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
I learned also that we could make changes, that we could make our voices heard. And so, I got together with all the people who were shakers and movers at the time, who were activists at the time: the Wilson Head, the Al Mercury, the Harry Gary, all of those people who were standing up for this just society that Pierre Elliot Trudeau at the time was talking about, and what was needed in the society, and what we needed to do. And so, when we look at the lack of role models, either in the media, in magazines, and whatever came to our doors, it was important that you couldn't just sit back and let things happen. That we had to move, we had to protest, we had to demonstrate, we had to go see the head of, whether it was Sears, or Simpsons, or The Bay, to ask about models and faces of Colour in their outputs. So, it was something that one had to do. And I grew up also in an environment where they were saying, to whom much is given, much is expected. You can read, so go read for the lady whose son is writing to her, and she can't read the letter.

I grew up with, too, you have to serve, you have to give back. And so, when I came, I was looking for opportunities to give back. And I joined organizations and was part of the founding of several organizations. The other night, I sat down, and I wrote—there were about 50 to 60 different organizations in the community over these many years that I have been associated with. And in the old days, Antoinette, the women were not presidents; the women were either the secretaries or the PROs, the Public Relations Officers for the organization. And so, that struggle for women to make their way and to get their way into higher avenues for learning, into decision-making places, into getting laws that would be just and fair so we can live in that society—that was our raison d'être. It wasn't just to make a living; it was also to make the society what we want to see for ourselves, for our children, and for the next generation. So, it was always not for me, but for the next generation. Not for us who are doing the protesting, but for the next generation. We're going to make it right, not for now, but for the next generation. We're not in the CBC, we're not on the television, our faces are not in all of these structures, but we're going to make it right for the next generation.

Gwen Chapman
Yeah, that's amazing. Zanana, your level of confidence—that's one thing that we see about you. You have this very no-nonsense kind of posture and attitude about you. And I'm just wondering, is that a part of what has developed as you have faced racism in a number of industries? Please tell us, you know, share with us how you have combated racism and stayed focused on your goals, pursued and accomplished the things that you've always wanted to.

The Hon. Zanana Akande
You know, parents at that time, our parents from the islands especially, believed—or many of them believed, if not all of them—that because their children were born here, their experiences would be different in terms of their acceptance from the experiences that they themselves had realized. And so, they thought, "You all will be Canadian, and you won't have this difficulty." Of course, they lived to see that that was not true. It's part of what my parents taught me, and it's also a part of, you know, the feeling that I was born here, I live here, this is my country, and if anyone isn't going to treat me properly, I'm going to tell them about it. I mean, I'm going to be polite, I'm going to be respectful, but I'm going to be direct because so much is hidden by the verbiage that people use that you, you really don't get the message.

So, when I went to school, if there were problems, I remember—I think I've told this story so many times—that we had a geography book. I still have the copy of that geography book. We all used the same books at that time, and it had little things in it about the Africans. My father said, "This is not true, and you will tell the teacher that this is not true." I thought, "Oh my God, I'm never going to get out of grade 5. I'll be here forever." He said, "You tell him." I said, "Dad, you know, you can't say that." And my father said, "You will tell," and he told me the day. He said, "You go back to school." Well, Monday afternoon, I looked. I don't know why, someone said to me, "That's your dad." Now, I went to a Roman Catholic school, and we were the only Black children in it. I was there all by myself, because my brothers and sisters were much older, and they had left. They said, "That's your dad, isn't it?" I looked outside. My father was dressed like he wasn't at work, because, you know, he worked at Canada Packers—it almost killed him, but that's where he worked—and I stood up, and we got to our social studies class, and I wondered, "what's my father doing here?". And I told, I had to tell Mr. O'Connell that this was not true. So, I did that, and Mr. O'Connell said, "So, you write books now?" He was very angry. So, the moral of the story is that my father was there because he had come into the school so that after school, if I got in trouble, he was going to explain to them why I had said it.

Determination comes from if you put a wall in front of someone long enough and often enough, and [indiscernible] then after a while, I guess people think it should be there. It’s quite accurate. I think my parents created someone that, after a while, they wished they hadn't, in terms of being very direct, because not only would I question the things they told me to question, I would also sometimes question them. Those of us who have West Indian parents know that’s not always well received.

Gwen Chapman
Bev, you want to share with us one of your most challenging situations or experiences and let us know how you also dealt with that?

Dr. Beverley Salmon
I found that I chose the level of politics that I felt was closest to people, the municipal level, and that you could actually see results immediately from what you’re doing. But one of the most challenging things I found was to get a focus on the issues that weren't typically on the agenda, like the anti-racism issues, and trying to get some response to them. It was difficult, because they weren’t necessarily of that importance to most of my colleagues. We see today how issues that Zanana, Jean, and I have worked on for decades, are finally getting some attention worldwide and, hopefully, we’ll move forward. But that’s what I found the most challenging trying to move the agenda forward.

Gwen Chapman
Yeah, and so, how do you feel—Jean, this is to you—how do you feel about the changes that are happening, to see a collection of people all over the world supporting and encouraging Black folks, and saying basically no more to racism? How does that make you feel as a person who’s been fighting for equality, justice, and fairness for so long?

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
Sometimes I'm hopeful, and other times I have that sense of déjà vu. We were here before, we had these discussions before, we've come to this point, this peak before. We've had, on an international level, we came together in Durban with this huge conference against racism, and all kinds of discrimination where the world's voices were brought to the table. I've seen that those incidents happen, and they flare up, and we think there is going to be the other side when we'll get to "the promised land," as it were, the place where equality and diversity and inclusiveness would be recognized. And then we slip back, because we see people in power and people who are decision-makers have input into the agenda that have created the position where we, we're not moving.

I'm hopeful on the other side of today's discussions and today's protests, because I think it's more grassroots than at any governmental or any other levels. As I watch some of the protests, especially the ones in the UK or in the US, I see the hands that are lifted of all colours, white people who are engaged in this. I see the placards being personal. People made their own, they got their own piece of cardboard, and they wrote their own message. So, it's not kind of led by some bureaucracy or some political party or whatever. It's the people's, it seems to me it's almost like the people's movement.

And when I hear corporate leaders and others saying, I think we were wrong, I think we made a mistake there, I think we recognize that we did not provide promotional opportunities, that in the boardrooms of our nations we don't have the representation of the voices, that some people are waking up to the 400 years of, of slavery and the residue of all of that, and the effects of all of that, and that builds and recognizes that, within their systems, are systemic things that deter the full participation and individuals, Black individuals, in the society not reaching their full potential.

And so, this discussion kind of says to me that maybe we're turning a corner, and maybe we'll turn a corner on this, and maybe that discussion, coupled with the pandemic, where it shows us now that we're in a small world, that we're all united, that we are dependent on each other, that what happens in this place happens in the other. When we begin to realize our dependency on each other in the world, it seems to me that the discussion that's happening right now may bring us, hopefully, to a better place than other things I've seen over the years.

When I think, and I think so—and I think Zanana, also, and also Bev, know the demonstrations we've had, the weekly badgering, the letter-writing, the going to see corporate leaders, all of the things we've done over the years. And we see little change, little change, a little tweak here, a little tweak there. And it's very important that the Empire Club would bring together three of us, three Black women, to talk about this issue. Because prior to this, those are not issues that these traditional clubs would be discussing in these traditional clubs. And so, it's important. It's important for me to begin to say to myself, maybe this time, maybe this time. And I keep talking about the urgency of now...

Gwen Chapman
Now. M'hm (affirmative).

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
...the pandemic, the anti-racist, the anti-racist discussion, the systemic racism discussion, the anti-Black discussion, and all of the other issues that affect Indigenous peoples, that affect the LGBT and other communities, that all of these things are coming together. So, maybe now we'll begin to see this.

Gwen Chapman
Thank you. Zanina, how do you feel—are you hopeful? Are you hopeful with what you're seeing? And what other things, what more would you like to be happening in our country?

The Hon. Zanana Akande
Well, I am hopeful. I'm hopeful because not only do we see a variety of people out there, people from many backgrounds, but you also see young people. And I have a great deal of hope that young people will see things differently. After all, you have to stop and think that many of them are groups, or belong to groups, that have themselves been discriminated against. For example, the gays, the lesbians, the trans, they're a whole other group, and they know how it feels. In my early days, those people hid. They weren't out there, they weren't outspoken, you know. People might know, but it was all kept very secret. And it's wonderful to see that they're now accepted, and they have those choices. There are the Aboriginals are out there...

Gwen Chapman
Yes.

The Hon. Zanana Akande
...and that's wonderful. Because for so long they seemed silent. Remember a few years ago they had the campaign, "Silent No More." So, I think that the youth have another perspective on this. And the other thing is, it's no longer so exceptional to see a Black person, or an Aboriginal, or anybody achieve something that previously was considered exceptional. I mean, I'm still shocked at the fact that in 1990 when I was elected, I was the first Black woman to be a cabinet minister anywhere in Canada. When they told me that, I said, "I don't believe it," because actually, I thought that Rosemary Brown had been a cabinet minister. Now, can you imagine, in 1990? It took them that long. And so, those things are no longer exceptional. They are that, you know, when I started teaching, there were very few Black teachers in the schools. Now, you can barely walk into a school where you don't see many of them. So, sometimes we fail to mark our progress because it's not what we want, it's not the end. But I think that the fact that those people exist in such great numbers now allows people to recognize, hey, why should we hold them back? They have things to offer, and they are doing well. And so, we better get out of the way. And I'm hopeful, but I'm also determined. I'm not stepping out of the way until they do open all the doors. That's it.

Gwen Chapman
Well said, Zanana, well said. Beverley, so how do you feel about everything that's going on?

Dr. Beverley Salmon
I think it's very important and timely that two pandemics are going on...

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
Yeah.

Dr. Beverley Salmon
..parallel course. So, all eyes are and attention focused on the issues that we've been striving to get some attention for decades. But I am very concerned that this will not be a fast process. Systemic racism runs deep in all of our institutions. And it's going to take the collective will of everyone to turn that around. Change is slow. And I hope this isn't a flash in the pan where people feel, they're very concerned at the moment, some are getting burned out on the issue. We, Black people are getting exhausted from the fight. And we need everybody on board. As I say, we've tried for so long just to get simple changes in the curriculum so that Canada's true history is taught. Not what we were taught in school. It's still a struggle. The average Canadian has no idea of the contribution of Blacks and the length of time they've been in Canada, 400 years. They don't know about the Chinese building the railroad; they don't know how we interned Japanese people during the Second World War. So, a lot of these facts are not even known, and people need to educate themselves. But more importantly, we need the education system to focus and change the curriculum, so it's not just left to individuals to do this work.

But there are changes needed in the financial system, Black businesses are still struggling to get the financial help that they need. And the judicial system, we can all see what's going on there, the unfairness, and how difficult that is to, to turn around. But we have an opportunity. We're going to have a new police chief. We have an opportunity to look at real, true, systemic change. We can't just tinker with certain aspects of these systems. We need real, deep-rooted change. But I am encouraged that things will start to finally turn on.

Gwen Chapman
Yeah, you know, one of the things I've always thought about is, I have this image that Canada is like a family. And in a family, you know, let's say we have four children. We will not be okay as a family that, when two or three out of our four children are doing okay. If we're going to be a strong family, a family that's going to make an impact, have an impact, we need to make sure that all our children are doing okay. So, in this sense, I really hope that we work towards making sure that all our children from all backgrounds, from all races, experiences do well, and that they have what it takes, and they have what they need, in order for them to be successful. Zanana, I'm just wondering from your point of view, what things do you feel are needed right now in order to really help push to ensure that all communities, all Canadians will have a fair shake to be all that they can?

The Hon. Zanana Akande
Well, you know, every time you talk about race issues, and you talk about their remediation in large centers like in school boards, they immediately want to provide workshops. They immediately want to provide situations where they interact with their staff, or like in hospitals, the people who work there, and feeling that if they interact with them and they provide workshops and they provide information, that their attitudes will change.

It's not a matter of their ignorance; it's a matter of their not wanting to give up their power, you know? It's the power that they give up. And I keep saying to people, never mind the workshop, what you need to make it happen quickly—and I know that people say, "Well, you know, how quickly can you have this happen?" What you need is this: this is what we expect of our employees. And if, in fact, you cannot or will not offer those, if you cannot behave within those realms, you will be fired. And it sounds "deliberate," and "demanding," and" quick." And so it should be.

I mean, you know, people come to work in Toronto, I don't care at what profession, and surely, they must have looked it up. When I go to apply for a job, I read about it. I read where I'm going, I read about the company, I read about the city it's in. And surely they must know that this is the most multicultural, multi-ethnic country—or city—in the world. So, why would you come here with some narrow-minded idea? Why would you be born here with some narrow-minded idea? It's because you have been in a situation where you had power and you are reluctant to give it up.

And I think that [indiscernible] ignorance rather than their paycheck. Because it becomes very quick and very definite when you say to people, "These are my expectations. And if you don't meet them, then perhaps you will have to employ yourself elsewhere." And I, I sincerely believe that. My son always says, "You know, that's rather simplistic, mother. I'm not sure it can be done." And I said, it can be done. It has been done in other situations—but I'll save that for another time—it has to be done. You know, people have been told, "This is what I expect. You don't give it to me; you can't continue to be here." And that's as clear as it can get.

QUESTION & ANSWER

Gwen Chapman
Thank you, Zanana. You know, we're gonna take a few questions now. So, we've got a question from Clara Addo, and she asked: what is the one thing black female leaders should focus on in order to serve our community? Bev, you want to take that?

Dr. Beverley Salmon
I think it's important to, first of all, identify an issue that you're concerned about. If young Black women want to start getting into politics; they need to involve themselves in something of value. They also need to believe in themselves, and they have to recognize they're unique. They don't need to try to be like somebody else. They're a unique individual with value. And they need to find their gift and to use that gift wisely. So, I really encourage young Black women, especially, to get involved. And you can start with it in a very minute way. But all of us have had a lot of involvement in our past backgrounds, with many different issues and organizations. So it is most doable.

Gwen Chapman
Okay. So, we have another question that's from Chantal Hatton. Jean, I'm going to direct that one to you. She said: we need to speak to our governments and corporate leaders about these issues. What specific actions should we be asking them to take? Where would you suggest that we start this conversation?

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
This conversation has to start right at home. Too many of our young people—and I've had occasions to ask—Who is your school trustee? Who is the mayor of your city? Who represents you in the provincial parliament? Who represents you at the federal level? So, first of all, you need to know who the folks are representing you, and the conversation starts at home with them. And then you move this into ensuring that there are others in your circle who care about the particular issue. And then you start moving on that particular issue, doing some research, some background. Because oftentimes we move ahead without knowing that something like this has previously happened, that this has been a discussion that has taken place at whatever level. So, doing your research, doing the background, getting some people with you, moving along with the representative—whether it's a provincial question or a municipal question—moving along with the person who represents, the individual, who is a representative of that area, having them understand what the issues are, and then mobilizing. I think the whole issue is mobilizing as you move forward. Because to go right from what you're thinking of straight into legends into getting some legislation, it just won't happen like that. It's mobilizing. It's getting the issue known. It's writing media or op-eds or finding some way to get the message out.

And I know the young people are very much now into social media. And starting to—this is what we did in those days, you know—the back-to-school pamphlets would come to the home, back to,-send your child back to school. And all these beautiful little blonde, blue-eyed children with no physical disability, nicely dressed, and the price, and the cost of the dress, thrown to the door. So, what did myself and others do? We said, "We don't see any of our Black kids on here." And so, we went from door-to-door, and we picked up all of those flyers, we rolled it together, and we went to the Bay or to wherever it came from and said, "Look, don't put this thing around until you have some of our children. Let's give them an opportunity to model, give them an opportunity, so that when our kids look through this, they could see somebody who looked like themselves." So, it's a business of mobilizing, finding others who have the same sentiments you have, finding your local person, and beginning to move it up so that you get to the legislative process. Thank you.

Gwen Chapman
Thank you, Jene. Zanana, this question is to you. This comes from JD Baxter: How do we help organizations support the growth of black employees without promoting tokenism?

The Hon. Zanana Akande
I don't believe I heard you, I'm sorry. Could you please repeat it?

Gwen Chapman
He said, "How do we help organizations support the growth of Black employees without promoting tokenism?"

The Hon. Zanana Akande
Well, I think speaking to them and—the employees—and understanding. I know when I went to the provincial government, many of the Black civil servants came to me and spoke very bluntly about the fact that they had been there so many years and had been held back, and that their applications for a promotion were, were rejected. Listening to their concern. Asking them, "What have you done in order to promote yourself? Have you taken the courses that are required for you to move forward?" And some of them would say, for example, that they were, that their applications for those courses and the funding for that, and even the funding for it, would be refused by their superiors. And so, with that information, then you move forward. And you, you have to do it in a way that doesn't put the employees themselves under the bus. You have to say how is it, or who is it, you would want me to speak to? And you also know who the appropriate people are, so that you're taking them with you. You're not going to do something which is going to be putting them in a negative position. Because that's the kind of thing that you have to worry about when you're speaking for a group. When I speak for you, I have to have your support and your permission to say what I'm going to say so that I don't put you in a negative position.

And then you have to decide that you're not going to go once and forget about it. These are long-term things. People have been holding onto power for a very long time. And so, they question your right to challenge them on this issue. And the other thing I'm going to say is—the last thing—is that you have to be certain that the people who are asking for your help are prepared and knowledgeable about what they really want. Because sometimes you find that they haven't done all of their homework—some of them—but usually nowadays, you know, I find people are quite astute. They don't come and ask for help unless they've prepared the way.

Gwen Chapman
Yeah, thank you, Zanana. So, this question is from Sarah. I'm going to direct that to you, Bev. Do you find that Black Canadian women are as engaged in elections as their American sisters, and if not, how can that be changed?

The Hon. Zanana Akande
Well, we have had organizations that are promoting women in politics. And we find that people really need to be encouraged to put themselves forward; you need the support of others as well. But I don't know that Canadian women are any less engaged than our American sisters. I just haven't seen that myself.

Gwen Chapman
Okay. Zanana, this one is to you. This is from Katherine JC, she says: a question for you, how do you make organizations accountable to have more Black leaders at the executive level?

The Hon. Zanana Akande
Well, of course, you, first of all, you have to introduce the topic, you have to say why. Have you never had a representative from the Black community? Or have you ever had someone leading this group other than a Caucasian male? I mean, you know, those were our situations years ago. How many, how many people does this organization represent? And according to its goals, don't you think those goals would be better achieved if you had people who were profiting from this organization also being in its leadership? You ask what I used to call—you'll forgive me—dumb questions, to allow people to see how ridiculous the omission is. And I would rather ask them and bring them to that realization than tell them because sometimes the answers they give you are such that they themselves are embarrassed by them. "Well, we've never had another leader." Why not? "Well, they don't seem to come forward." Are they in the executive? "No. Well, you know, what difference does it make?" I love when they ask, what difference does it make, because then I get to....

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
One of the things, Gwen...

Gwen Chapman
Yes.

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
...one of the things, Zanana, that we have begun in our community is looking at the women and looking at the strengths, looking at the academic achievements, looking at the professional achievements of these women. And so, we have this program, 100 Accomplished Black Canadian Women. We have a database of 100 in 2016, 100 in 2018, 100 in 2020. So, we have a database of these hundreds of women with their accomplishments, with their professional background, with their work experience. And we have that database available to corporate Canada, to boardrooms, to institutions, and to other places. One just has to pick up their document and find these accomplished women.

The Hon. Zanana Akande
Jean, do the companies ask for that database? Because remember, there have been other groups that collected that data, and then said that the difficulty they had was getting it out, was getting companies to use it, or was getting organizations to use it.

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
Well, this is why I'm referring to it here, so that all those who are listening could know that we have this 100 Accomplished Black Canadian Women. And we do galas where we put the books out, and we send it into all kinds of corporate places. But again, it's, leadership is so crucial and important when we talk about the boardrooms of our nation ,or we talk about the hierarchy in our institutions. Leadership is so important. It has to be that willingness to look around the boardroom and say, this is not right. We cannot all be 15 men around here. We cannot all be so many, you know, of one ethnic, or one racial ,or whatever group.

That, the questions become—the answers to the questions are different when you have a composition, when you have what we call the multicultural nature of Canadian society around the table. That you have the voices, young and old, you have the experience, the years of experience, together with the racial and other minorities. Because you have before you a board, or you have before you leadership that can make a difference.

And so, what we're doing right now is making sure that we put these women forward, and we put their bios forward, so that, you know—again when we go back, you can't legislate love, but you could legislate that people do the right things. And we know in some other areas, in Scandinavia and other experiences, they've shown where they say to boards, "You have to have this percentage of women, you have to have this number of women to this number of men on your boards," and it happened. So, I think we have to be at the point where boards and corporate leaders have to begin, and institutional leadership has to be such, and they have to recognize that their boards, or their institution, or the leadership team, or whatever, is not the composition of the face of all major urban areas.

Gwen Chapman
Thank you, thank you, Jean.

The Hon. Zanana Akande
That's a great point, Jean. I think that those of us who sit there have to initiate the conversation; otherwise, very often, it does not happen. Not all the time, but very often, the conversation happens when those of us who sit there say, "Just a minute, may I ask, this isn't good enough." Because being able to sit at that meeting not only gives us an opportunity, but it makes it almost are our reason to be there, to make sure that others will be sitting.

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
That's right. That's right.

Dr. Beverley Salmon
Identifying the women really does work...

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
M'hm (affirmative).

Dr. Beverley Salmon
...because in the early '70s, Chatelaine Magazine did an article, "103 Women Likely to Succeed in Politics." I was named as one of them, and so were many others who have gone on to, to be active in politics. So, what Jean's doing with the Hundred Accomplished Women is a really important initiative.

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
M'hm (affirmative). M'hm (affirmative).

Gwen Chapman
So, thank you so much. I'm gonna pose a last question for you, and that is,:what would you want to share with the young people out there? What is the most important lesson that you'd like to give to them?

The Hon. Zanana Akande
I would say you can be and do anything you want. Get prepared for it, learn about it, decide upon it. Not relative to somebody else, not as we used to say, "unless or until,"— and that was unless we got married, or until we got married—however, rather, whether you're married or not, whatever your other plans are, decide on what you want to do and go for it...

Gwen Chapman
Bev?

The Hon. Zanana Akande
...and make sure you know the area. Too many of them [indiscernible]. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Gwen Chapman
Thank you. Beverley?

Dr. Beverley Salmon
Hold past your dreams and believe in yourself. And accept the love and support around you, and support others.

Gwen Chapman
Thank you. And Jean?

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
I would say, know yourself, know your passion. And also, know that nothing comes easily. That most people who have made it to whatever and made it to wherever have fallen many times, and had to get up, and had to keep on going. And I think that, that don't expect that life will just part waves for you. You have to work hard, you have to know your passion, and you have to work hard towards the fulfillment of whatever your vision, your dream, or your goal is.

Gwen Chapman
Thank you. And, you know, what? Since we started off with talking about purpose, I would like to ask you if you could make something very short—say something very short —in terms of your life purpose, what would you want us to say about you?

The Hon. Dr. Jean Augustine
I would like, I would like to see, I would like to see on my tombstone, "She worked hard, she served the community, and she loved everyone."

Gwen Chapman
Zanana?

The Hon. Zanana Akande
Oh my God. "She did the best she could, she told the truth sometimes, and people didn't want to hear it, and she was interested in [indiscernible]"

Gwen Chapman
Bev?

Dr. Beverley Salmon
"She was determined, she was a Capricorn, and she had a fulfilling life that she loved."

Gwen Chapman
Thank you so much, all three of you, for these incredible, inspirational moments. I hope our young people can feel your resilience, your courage, your compassion, and the strength and the love that you have for all Canadians, all people all over the world, and that they will embrace their talents, and do something wonderful with the gift that God has given them. Thank you so much, Antoinette, and the team, for doing this.

Antoinette Tummillo
Thank you, Gwen. I almost want to ask you that last question, but I won't do that to you, since you're the moderator, because that's a terrific question to end this little discussion. I would now like to introduce Monique Rudder. She's the Partner, Tax and Legal Practice Lead at Deloitte Canada, to deliver the appreciation remarks.

Note of Appreciation by Monique Rudder, Partner, Tax & Legal Practice Lead, Deloitte Canada
Thank you so much, Antoinette, and congratulations on your new role as president. It's really truly been a privilege to be here today with you, our esteemed panel, and the webcast participants. On behalf of the Empire Club of Canada, our audience, and of course Deloitte, I want to express such a sincere thank you to our panel: the Honourable Doctor Jean Augustine, the Honourable Zamana Akande, and Dr. Beverley Salmon. And of course, our wonderful moderator Gwen Chapman. Your comments today were so relevant, just at a time when we are collectively considering how we can move into the future to create a more equitable society for Black women and other minority groups in our communities.

You know, I was particularly moved to hear about your challenges that you've faced in your lives and your careers. And especially those early years, when you faced overt racism, yet you focused on the opportunities, you know, particularly the ones around education, giving back to your community, and just really refusing to buy into the idea that there were things that you just couldn't do. And more importantly, I'm motivated by your insights on steps that we can take to build on the past and really ignite the future around diversity and inclusiveness. Specifically, your ideas around continuing to be active in our communities to influence the changes we want to see for ourselves and for those coming up behind us. But first, ensuring that we're really educated on the work that has been done so we can focus our efforts, including businesses and public sector allies, to identify and address those systemic issues that have perpetuated the inequalities that we know exist. And then, of course, that powerful example of utilizing the education system to reflect the contributions of Blacks and other minority groups, and the contributions we've made around the vibrancy of this great country that we live in. It truly gives us hope that we have a bright future. But we all do need to lean in if we want to see those opportunities materialized. So, thank you again, sincerely, for this powerful discussion. Thank you, as well, to our audience for your active engagement. It's been such a pleasure to spend this time with you. And I'll turn it back to you now, Antoinette.

Concluding Remarks by Antoinette Tummillo
Thank you, Monique. Well, I don't think I could add anything more. You said it all. I said it at the beginning, wow, you ladies, thank you for all that you do. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for being at my first event. This is so fabulous. And Jean, thank you for noting this, that this panel—I can't believe the Empire Club never did this before. We have to do more of this stuff. So, you ladies were amazing. Thank you all. Thank you, Gwen, for doing a terrific job. And I hope you can all join us for our next event, which will be also very interesting. It's all about the impact of COVID-19 on Canadian women, from amental health, money, and the social shifts we're seeing. So that's on July 29th at noon. So please join us for that. And this meeting is now adjourned. Thank you.