Recent Developments in University Education in Great Britain

PRESIDENT HEWITT in introducing the speaker said,--It is not my purpose to enumerate the many honours that have been earned by our distinguished guest of today, Sir Bertram Windle; nor to refer, specifically, to the various eminently important offices which he has filled with much distinction in the academic life of the motherland. Suffice it to say that a most unusual opportunity is afforded the Empire Club in having as its guest one of the most brilliant scholars in the British Empire.

One of the Irish newspapers pays special tribute to Sir Bertram's "skill in affairs, his courtesy, his personal enthusiasm and his profound belief in the exalted nature of the educational tasks he was called upon to perform."

The subject chosen by Sir Bertram for his address today is a particularly fortunate one for us, following as it does the recent address by Dr. Newton.

I understand that this is the first occasion on which Sir Bertram has delivered a public address in Toronto, and on behalf of the members of the Empire Club present, I desire to extend to him a very hearty welcome. I was telling him a moment ago that I thought his removal from Ireland to Toronto might very likely be the cause of another revolution in Ireland. (Laughter) I told him that I hoped, however, that the atmosphere in Toronto would be one very favourable for the transmission to others of the wonderful store of knowledge which he himself has accumulated in many years experience. He told me that he had not so far found any idle time on his hands, and I do not think he ever will during his stay in this City; because, if there is one subject which is of paramount importance in these times, it is the matter of education, and in particular the higher education of our young people who are growing up. I have much pleasure in introducing Sir Bertram Windle, and I know that he will bring you a message that you will be glad to hear.

SIR BERTRAM WINDLE

Mr. President and Members of the Empire Club,--I would like to say in the first place that I very highly appreciate the compliment you have paid me in inviting me here this afternoon--a man who came to Canada knowing no single individual within its bounds, a complete stranger, and I desire to recognize to the fullest the extraordinarily gracious and hospitable reception I have met in this City.

It was a great surprise to me to receive the invitation to take part in the educational work of this City, and that, particularly, at a time when I felt that I might with reason resign the very arduous and anxious post which I had held for some fifteen years in Ireland. It was a singular thing that I should be invited to Canada; for I may tell you that during the entire course of my married life I have heard more about Canada than any other country in the world, and for this reason, that my wife attributes her own excellencies--and I admit they are many--partly to the fact that she was born in Canada and lived on the right side, whatever that is, of the Medway--I have forgotten which and partly to the fact that she was brought up in the Province of Ontario. (Applause) Our married life has always been to me an evidence that Canada is the only reasonable place for any human being to live. In fact, I have an opportunity of testing her assertions, and if I find that they are incorrect, I will consider I am in a very favourable position for making remarks on the subject. (Laughter) I might also confess to a little embarrassment in addressing such an assembly as this after the very important speech I had the privilege of listening to in this place last week, from Sir George Paish. I cannot hope to say anything on the same level either of interest or otherwise, to that to which we listened a week ago today. However, you have paid me the compliment of asking me here, and I will try to say something about some subjects in which I myself am interested.

Of course, one must necessarily commence with some remarks in reference to the War. There are those whose age prevented them, like myself, from going to the Front, but having lived on the other side of the Atlantic, I was brought into contact rather closely with the incidents of the war in Lispenaw and Leinster, and know the experience of those who, even though they were not at the Front, have the war burnt into their hearts, and cannot help bringing it to their minds every day of their lives.

Of course, in connection with this matter of education it is, as I think, an exceedingly important factor. What I suppose we all desire more than anything is that there shall be no more war. I wonder whether that happy vision is likely to be realized. Is the League of Nations really going to relieve us from the danger of war, I wonder. I always felt, for years back, that the one thing which would afford a substantial protection against warfare would be a thorough, firm, and lasting agreement between the English-speaking peoples of the world. (Applause) The foundation of such an agreement must begin with the English-speaking people of the British Empire; and that, I understand, is one of the objects for which this Club exists. So far as I can see there is only one difficulty in the way of that ideal, and that difficulty is the unfortunate position of the country to which I myself belong. I do not intend to touch upon that at great length, but I would like to say this. No one can recognize the difficulties of that case so well as those who, like myself, were members of the Irish Convention, and, through eight weary months, sat listening to the various discussions of that body. No one who did that can doubt that a thornier and more difficult question never faced politicians; but, in my opinion, it has got to be settled. I myself can remember, I think, at least five or six favourable occasions which have been lost; it is the old story of the Sibylline Books over again. Every opportunity that was lost, the price rose. It has got to be paid sometime or other. In my opinion it has got to be paid as soon as possible, and this matter cleared out of the way, in order that the understanding of which I have spoken may be arrived at. That is all I wish to say on that particular point.

Now I pass to the more proper part of my address, which is in regard to University reconstruction that follows after wars. It was after the reverses that Prussia suffered some 100 years ago, that the policy of founding and fostering Universities in that country was started, in order, as it was stated at the time, that the loss of material territory might be made up for by increased intellectual effort; and no one can doubt that the great prosperity that waited upon the German Empire, prior to their unfortunate declaration of war, was due to the physical and chemical resources which were carried out in connection with the Empire. I would go further, and say that I think nothing was more responsible for the war than the spirit which was fostered by those resources, and it is a fact that you will always remember in connection with education in Germany, if you follow their philosophies for years back, that education on wrong principles is worse than no education at all. (Applause)

I noticed the other day, in a book which contains many excellent things, namely, the Bible, a statement which was to me the summing up of the philosophies which had been taught in the German Universities, and of which this war was evidence: "Let us oppress the poor, just man; and not spare the widow, nor honour the ancient grey hairs of the aged, but let your strength be the law of justice; for that which is feeble is found to be nothing worth." That is what was written many hundreds of years ago by the Author of the Book of Wisdom, and I think it adequately sums up the attitude which, in its essentials, was what the German Philosophers taught in their Universities, and out of which came the war which has turned the whole world upside down. In my opinion--I state it plainly here--education which is devoid of moral sanction and religious sanction may be a much more dangerous thing than no education at all. (Applause)

Well, during the latter part of the war there has been a great deal of activity in the British Isles in regard to educational reconstruction. Many conferences have been held, and at many of them I was present, and a Delegation visited America and Canada and came here. It was one of the greatest regrets of my life that I was unable to accept the very kind invitation given by the Foreign Office to be a member of that delegation. I should have visited a lot of interesting places and seen many interesting things, but I could not manage it at that time. Out of these reconstruction meetings have arisen certain general things and certain special things, some of which had been inaugurated before the war; and I want to say something about two or three of those special directions in which University Education has progressed in Eng land. I am particularly anxious to say nothing about Canada. I will wait until I know something about it before I talk of it. If that rule had been followed by visitors to my own country, it would have been to the great benefit of the world at large. (Laughter and applause) I will talk merely about things of which I know something.

The first curious development, I think as it will seem to many here, was one with which I myself was closely associated, being Secretary of the movement for some time. This was the establishment of a Faculty of Brewing in connection with the University. It would be no use to you here (laughter) but in Birmingham when I was there, it was felt that being in the centre of the brewing industry, so to speak, in the large city of Burton where the beer comes from, it was a pity that so many students had to be sent to the continent for the purpose of carrying on this industry-based as it is, as with all fermented industries, on Chemistry, Botany and Bacteriology. And so this Faculty was started, and when it was started, it was thought we should have rather a warm time of it when the Temperance Party realized what had been done; but not at all. One of the leaders of that party said to me "Well, you know, I don't like beer, but if you are going to have beer, you had better have good beer than bad beer." That seemed to be a more temperate reply than one always gets from that kind of orator. (Laughter) Well, as that is all of no interest about here (laughter) I will pass on to something which is of more interest; and that is the remarkable growth of the Faculties of Commerce in the Universities. What had been felt for a long time by the University authorities was that the reign of what are called "bread studies" that is, studies by which a man can actually earn his living, like medicine, engineering, and so on--that that reign was one that must be fostered; that it does not do any longer to rely purely upon the humanities and mathematics, as was more or less the case in the old Universities; that opportunities must be provided for students to learn their professions and businesses in a broadly-taught manner and on useful lines.

The first Faculty of Commerce was started in Birmingham when I was a member of the Senate of the University there with other Professors; and the first Professor we had came from Toronto--Sir William Ashley--who was here many years ago, and I think went from here to Harvard and thence to Birmingham. He had to start a new Faculty there, and it has been perfectly successful. One of the difficulties we had there, as we had in Cork, was with the businessmen. They didn't think the thing was going to be a good proposition for them when it was started, but I think they rather changed their attitude when they found that the first English-speaking Faculty of Commerce an the world was rapidly occupied by a large number of Japanese who knew a good thing when they saw it, even if the local people did not, and I think that object lesson had a great deal of effect.

The Irish Education Act came into operation ten years ago, and I started one of these Faculties in Cork, and was fortunate enough to secure, as Professor, a man who had not had the full academic training but had business training--a thing which I particularly desired. He was Managing Director at the time, and had been through the mill. One of the first things which we started with was a scheme which I think has worked out very well, although it has not been tried elsewhere. We succeeded in getting a number of business firms, Railways and Chartered Accountants, to open their offices to our second and third year students for three months each summer, and let those boys go in, without any pay, and do three months' work either in the railway business, or whatever other business might call for them. That offered a great advantage in two ways: first of all it gave those boys, by the time they got their degree--we have a three years' course there--six months' work in the actual operation of a business concern. There is another advantage--and it is no less an advantage to the business men--that the Commerce Faculty is a proposition that is of use to them and can turn out the kind of person who will make useful employees for them. In my experience that is one of the hardest lessons to teach the business men on the other side of the Atlantic; they do not understand that at all, though I think it is true if the course is properly conducted.

Now, these are the things to understand in relation to the Commerce Faculty. First of all, the course which these students go through, is a first class Arts course; it is not merely technical. A man has to acquire a good knowledge of mathematics; he has to acquire a working knowledge of two foreign languages--we give them their alternatives--French, German, Italian, Spanish and Russian, and they have to learn to converse in them as well as to write them. They have to barn a certain amount of law, and they do a great deal of bookkeeping under a first class accountant; and at the end I would say, without fear of being contradicted, that they have had as broad and as illuminating an Arts course as could be obtained anywhere. Another point of interest is that it was not merely the business of Directorships which the students in such a Faculty were given. The Editor for some time of the greatest financial' newspaper in England, the Statist, Sir George Paish, who was here the other day, took three boys out of that Commerce Faculty, the last year I was there, and put them on the Staff of his Paper. The Editor, Mr. Lloyd, a wonderful old man, over 86 years of age, and as keen as Sir George Paish who has a great grip on Economics, got one of those students, and he liked him and got another; and just as I left, he wrote and said that he would have a third; for the sort of thing they learned in that Faculty was the sort of thing he wanted on that Paper.

There was another vocation open to people in this Faculty. Those who have been about the Empire more than I have will tell us, I think, that of all the scandals in connection with governmental affairs, probably the worst was the state of our Consular offices. A great many of the Consuls in a great many parts of the world were Germans. Well, we know the result of that. There was no regular Consular service; it was sometimes said to be the dumping ground; at any rate, during the war, the Government have seen the evils of that, and they have accepted a new scheme, a very important scheme. This scheme makes the Consular Service a closed Service like the Colonial Service or any other Branch, in which young fellows, after entering, will begin in the lower grades, and finally work up by seniority, and also let us hope, by merit, to be Consuls General, and so on. In other words, it is to be a closed profession and not the haphazard thing which it was before the war. (Applause) Probably many of you gentlemen may have seen that scheme from an educational point of view. What I want to emphasize now is that the education demanded for these posts is the education that is being agreed to in the Commerce Faculty--Foreign languages, especially their business side, Commercial Law, and other matters of that kind. Practically, the Commerce Faculty might have been set up for being a training ground for the new Consular Service, and I think it a very important opening for students.

There is one other matter to which I might briefly allude here, because I was interested in it and took some part in its initiation, and that is the foundation of the degree of journalism. In the presence of the Press I am going to speak with great respect. I should like to say that for years I held the view that the University should give a course that would turn out young men who would be very useful in the journalistic profession. I know that is the view of many journalists in England; and some years before the war, I was invited by the Institute of journalists to go down to their annual meeting in Brighton and give them a paper on that subject, as they were very much interested. I think, and have always thought, that it would be a great mistake to try to teach them the minutiae of a newspaper office. That is not what is wanted, but you can give them a broad education that will make them useful people when they are turned into an office. You can teach them foreign languages. You can teach them a good deal of geography--which we did--economics, history, and a little law--Law of Evidence and the Law of Libel--a little of that should be useful. Above all--and in this I was very interested because I taught it myself--straight forward, commonsense, unfloriated English composition. My effort along those lines was to teach boys and girls to tell a plain story in a plain and intelligible manner. I cannot but think that. every one trained in that way would have a rather valuable asset when turned on to the office that he hopes to reach. I must say that I did not find a very large number of students following this thing, but those who did have done quite well. One of them is also connected with the Statist and another of them is an American Correspondent. Another, a very clever girl, a Jewess, was on the staff of the Daily Chronicle in London; another is on some other paper, and I have lost track of him. Another young lady, one of the ablest I ever came across as a student, developed in another direction; she knew shorthand and typewriting, and became my private secretary with great success, and is now private secretary to one of the most important literary men in England; so there are many ways in which this training can lead to paying professions. The course of study which the students pursue is as broad and illuminating as any Arts course, and, I would think, more practical. (Hear, hear)

There are two other points to which I would allude for a minute. There has been a great deal of discussion on this side of the Atlantic as to the exchange of professors and the exchange of students. I think a great deal of that myself, and have had a great many discussions on the subject. No one can deny that, under certain circumstances and with certain limitations, both of those suggestions would be highly valuable. I believe in them myself, because I believe they would help to cement the bonds which we desire to see established between the different parts of the British Empire on both sides of the Atlantic. (Hear, hear) But I should like to make certain reservations. With regard to the professors, I think that no one can do better than invite to the other side of the Atlantic some distinguished man from this side for the purpose of giving, say, a three months' specialized course on some subject of which he is a master; and to special students. I think the idea of sending a man over there to take an ordinary class of students is not a good one. It breaks up the method, and after all it is very important that the student should master the method of his professor, if his professor is any good. Of course, one always hopes that he is. If so, his method, his way of attacking subjects, is one of the most important things the student has to learn. He could learn lots of things out of books, but he cannot learn methods except by contact with that man, and I do not want to see that broken up in an under-graduate's career. Therefore, if we are to have these visits, and I hope we shall, they should be visits by masters in particular subjects and for the purpose of giving a conspectus of those particular subjects to students in some way that would be satisfactory to themselves. I entirely endorse the opinion that it would be a great mistake to send students in exchange, until they had obtained their first degree. From my experience in Ireland, I am entirely in favour of boys or girls being educated in their own country until they take their first degree. I think it is a great mistake to send them to another one; they get disoriented--to use a French phrase. I was myself sent from Ireland to foreign schools, and I think it took me some time to get over it. If a person can be brought up in his own environment until he gets his first degree, then it is a splendid thing to send him out into the world to see things done elsewhere. Therefore, in regard to the exchange of students, I think it would be most favourably limited to those who have taken their B.A. or B.Sc., and let them then go on and put mansard roofs on their noddles, as Mark Twain says. But I myself attach a great deal of importance to the exchange situation. I think it is a great thing that we should know more about one another. I confess I have had my eyes very widely opened about Toronto--I won't say anything further than that--but I think it would be a good thing for other people to come over and see these things, and I think it would be a good thing if the young people from here could see some things in the British Isles; for there are some very interesting things there. At any rate, in the proposition for exchange, I can see not only a great benefit to education--there will be that, I am sure--but also a great benefit to the better understanding between the different parts of the British Empire, which is what I myself desiderate, and which is what I understand this Club stands for. (Loud applause)

The President presented the hearty thanks of the Club to Sir Bertram.